I have a question

Discussion in 'Judo' started by JunFanJack, Oct 29, 2008.

  1. Spinmaster

    Spinmaster Valued Member

    Fair enough point about the goggles, but as far as "I don't think it takes a genius to bite somebody", I don't think it's that simple. You know there's an entire Filipino martial art dedicated to biting and gouging? Not to mention that it helps to understand the psychology related to fighting, i.e. growling noises, etc. can actually be quite intimidating if you're not used to/prepared for such things. But anyhow, I like how my BJJ instructor said it:

    "Anyone can cheat. So if both fighters are cheating, the fighter that has the better technique (both in the cheating and the non-cheating) is going to win".

    EDIT: JunFanJack, aren't you the guy who was claiming that JKD is more "street realistic" than MMA because JKD practices stuff like eye gouges? So why are you now arguing that these types of techniques are easy enough to implement (maybe I should say, "implement well) without practice?
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2008
  2. Doublejab

    Doublejab formally Snoop

    You remind me of myself when I first started MAs. bless
  3. JunFanJack

    JunFanJack Valued Member

    I don't have any negative thoughts about MMA, as it is a sport. And if somebody has you in a lock, and the only way out is to bite, and this is the part where it gets really complicated so listen, you open your mouth, sink your teeth into the opponents leg, or wherever it may be, and then, you apply pressure.

    An eye jab is much harder in my opinion, you have to get the timing, distance, and accuracy right. I'd say there is more accuracy in this than there is in a punch, as you have to aim for their eyes, whereas a punch, has a wider area you could hit.

    If an MMA guy isn't taught a finger jab, it would be quite rare he could pull it off under adrenaline, but a bite, i think it comes quite naturally if theirs nowhere out except that.
  4. Spinmaster

    Spinmaster Valued Member

    @JunFanJack: I hope this doesn't come across too harshly, but you seem to have very set opinions on things that you don't have much knowledge about. You start a thread that demonstrates that you don't know much about Judo, and then you proceed to vehemently argue that Judo is not good for self defense. I noticed something similar in another thread when you wrote several posts about JKD vs. MMA and then asked "btw, what is MMA?".
    How long have you trained in/had experience with martial arts? What experience do you have with the FBI, Navy SEALS, etc. that makes you so certain you know all about their hand to hand combat training?
    It would help to keep an open mind when discussing things and not always state your opinion like it is scientific fact. There will always be people that know something you don't, and if you're too busy trying to make them listen to what you want to say, you'll probably miss out on things they could have told you.

    Peace and God bless. :)
  5. BruceLee94

    BruceLee94 Valued Member

    Naah, i do that because it brings out the answers in people I don't agree with a lot of the things i say on here, but nobody knows who i am, nor even will, and so i can use alternative methods to bring out the knowledge of people.

    when people are angry, or on a rant, they often say things that they really mean, wheras, if i simply ask a question, i don't often get a sufficiant answer, that's why i often say, (actuallyu, i don't think i do. but i mean to), don't take me to seriously.
  6. Moi

    Moi Warriors live forever x

    The double bluff eh?

    As if we would :rolleyes:
  7. wires

    wires Valued Member

    Judo - Kano's Judo had strikes

    Judo originally had strikes - and they even used them in the first competitions.

    The original Judo always sounds a lot like MMA to me.
  8. JunFanJack

    JunFanJack Valued Member

    I suppose it depends on the enviroment originally. If they were in jungle warfare, and a man popped out, and both were unarmed. Then you'd want to beat him in whichever way suits the enviroment. And, Jiu Jitsu was used to throw them onto the ground. However, nowadays, a lot of the techniques will still work effectively, but, are also quite traditional, and that there are other arts out there which are more 'suited' to street fighting.

    Am I correct?
  9. Yohan

    Yohan In the Spirit of Yohan Supporter

  10. Doublejab

    Doublejab formally Snoop

    seconded lol
  11. JunFanJack

    JunFanJack Valued Member

    Which is the part you don't understand?
  12. Doublejab

    Doublejab formally Snoop

    All of it, I have no idea what you're trying to say.
  13. Freyr

    Freyr Valued Member

    This is ridiculous.

    Judo was never intended to be a "fighting system" - it was created as an educational vehicle which served as a modern expression of Koryu Jujutsu. The grappling was studied in a scientific manner and a very complete grappling system was created, which, obviously has a great many potential applications in combat.

    However, I've never met any Judoka who are under the impression that Judo is "the best" fighting system or a "complete" fighting system. Particularly these days everyone knows that if you want to learn to fight, either in the ring or in "the street", you have to crosstrain (or perhaps study a system such as Systema which is specifically designed for modern combat by those who have crosstrained extensively).

    Judoka who only do Judo maybe don't have the time or interest to crosstrain... or could it simply be that they are investing their time in Judo as opposed to something else because *gasp* they enjoy it?

    To explore the idea of time restrictions - supposing you can only invest 8 hours a week on your interest in learning to fight. If you invest all of these hours in something like Judo (or BJJ for that matter), you will probably eventually become a fairly competent grappler. Similarly, if you spend all 8 practicing Muay Thai, you will probably eventually become a competent striker. However, if you split the time, you will probably only become mediocre at both, which probably will be no better than excelling at one or the other. MMA fighters may excel in multiple disciplines because they are professionals, and invest an enormous amount of time and effort into their training - most people have neither the time nor the resources to afford this.

    Also, enough of this nonsense about Judo being designed to fight opponents in samurai armor - no, that is not true. The technical aspects of Judo are predominantly a distillation of grappling techniques from a number of Koryu (classical) Jujutsu ryuha, SOME of which may at some point have been designed specifically to work against armored opponents. However, the techniques which have survived into modern shiai based practice assuredly work fabulously on normally, or even minimally attired opponents, as shown in numerous MMA bouts, Judo shiai matches, BJJ matches, Sambo, wrestling, you name it (US Army combatives for that matter...).

    So in conclusion, no Judo will not make you a good fighter, and no one claims it will (though it does have a lot of combative applications). People who don't crosstrain either don't want to because they do Judo for Judo, or don't have the time/money. Judo has no need to "evolve" to become a better fighting system, because it was never intended to be a fighting system. Also, if Judo schools attempted to expand their curriculum to cover a broader range of combat, they would sacrifice the quality of their specialization in throws/grappling - this should be fairly obvious.

    Edit: While strikes are included in Judo's curriculum, I had not heard that they were ever used in actual Judo matches - where did you come across this information? Some famous Judoka (such as Mitsuyo Maeda, Masahiko Kimura) participated in "Vale Tudo" matches in which striking was used, but these were not Judo matches, nor were the early matches against Jujutsuka.
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2008
  14. JunFanJack

    JunFanJack Valued Member

    wooah, ok, thanks for the answer, i was only wondering.

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