Discussion in 'Women's Self Defence' started by Artemisia, Dec 7, 2013.
I just remember the staples in the poor old lady's head and how angry I was that some punk did this to her.
Fair one. I can't say for sure then whether a gun would of helped her or not. If she didn't have enough warning of the attack or had it somewhere easily accessible (seriously, why are some sub-compact pistols still marketed as handbag guns?) then she would of probably still ended up the victim
I would also argue that having guns legal means that breaking into someone's house carries a risk of you getting shot. If the perp is dangerous, there is a good likelihood he won't last long before he get shot by a homeowner.
I agree with that but I don't think you said the old lady was a home invasion victim? If you did and I missed it then sorry about that. I'm talking about general street defence though where, ignoring whether an armed society is good or bad in general, I do seem to see a lot of people acting as if gun ownership is a holy grail for self defence without taking some of the context into account. Like there's a couple threads about this "knock out game" thingy and in both I've seen the story about an old lady who shot her two attackers mentioned to say that if these people had guns they'd be fine. The couple videps I've seen of this game though there hasn't really been much warning, just a random punch, so I don't quite see how gun posession would of helped them since they had no chance to draw it. Some idea of situational awareness might of helped though instead of "I've got my gun I'm fine" being as far as it goes.
I appreciate that might not apply to you completely but its why I have some reservations when people lament that you can't own guns here.
All I remember about the old lady was the staples in her head and that she told me that some hoodlum hit her with a brick.
I totally agree that situational awareness is appropriate when you live in a city where someone might punch you out of the blue. Having said that, a gun does one thing really well: a gun makes brute force strength irrelevant.
You realise that in the situation you are describing a gun would have made no difference. It isn't +10 to brick resistance.
No, but if she can get her gun and shoot the perp, he won't be hitting anyone with a brick ever again. Also, I would pose the question to you. If you've been attacked and wounded by an attacker, would you prefer to be helpless? Or armed?
why ,would you beat yourself up real good ?
I might scare myself and have to run away.
Which suggests to me she was hit out of the blue and considering the staples she was probably laid out. Mabe she would of been conscious enough to pull one but I'd have my mobey on that ending with her still hurt and a thug with a new gun.
It also doesn't really make brute strength irrelevant. I'm sure there's a statistic somewhere about how many cops who are gunshot victims are wounded with their own weapon. A gun makes strength irrelevant assuming you have pripe enough warning about an attack in order to draw it. After that its more a case of luck as to whether you can get to it or not and then fire it without your attacker getting it off you. And speaking of having prior warning, there's a very good, if old, video of a dude (dan insonoto?) demonstrating to police officers how quickly someone with a knife can close distace and kill you before you can draw and fire your weapon. The distance is pretty much the same for unarmed attackers just without the knife and its a pretty huge distance. I'll see if I can find it when I'm at a pc and not on my phone.
It reminds me a bit of an inquest into an insider shooting in Afghanistan and the families of a couple soldiers killed on a base by an ANA soldier said that if they'd been issued pistols try wouldn't have been killed because they'd have been armed too but completely ignored the fact that they were probably killed before they would of had a chance to react, let alone draw and fire a handgun.
I believe in the right to self defense. But I have to concede that merely having a firearm might not be a sufficient defense in some parts of the world. A gun owner might also need to practice at the range. It might also be necessary to practice drawing your weapon.
In hindsight, it seems I wasn't the only one with this school of thought. However I do now realize that living in the U.K. presents a unique perspective on self defense and the fight back mentality. I hope the U.S. never adopts the custom, norms and self defense laws of the U.K. How soon before they outlaw martial arts training in the U.K.?
I think you're misunderstanding the situation vis a vis violent crime here. We have great laws regarding self defence. They are different to those in the USA because the nature of violent crime is different here.
Professor of Law Gary Slapper noted that the CPS (Criminal Prosecution Service) had found in 2005, when they looked at prosecutions over the preceding 15 years, there had been over 20 million crimes that they had looked into with regard to the use of force, but during that time there had only been 11 cases where people had been prosecuted for excessive use of force in self defence.
As JWT points out our self defence laws are pretty good, the difficulties arise and people see them as problematic when they are ignorant about what consitutes self defence and reasonable force.
Question about U.K?
Is there an outlaw culture in the U.K.? Do criminals have easy access to firearms? The penalties for firearm possession must be severe? Can you get a firearm with a permit?
Handguns are banned. Very few criminals possess them anymore and most gun crime is committed with imitation firearms.
You can own other types of firearm if you have an appropriate license, which you have to apply for.
Not sure what you mean by this. Violent crime is at a 30 year low though.
Weapons are only used in about 22% of violent crime. Firearms are only used in about 1% of violent crime and their use is predominantly in inter-gang crime and as a coercion tool in robberies. Criminals do not have easy access to guns as a general rule unless they own them legally or have good contacts. It is not unknown for youth gangs to have one firearm between the whole gang.
Figures for the year ending June 2013 show that 5,157 firearm offences were recorded in England and Wales, a 8% decrease on the previous year.
You can get access to limited types of firearm for limited purposes with a background check. To retain a registered weapon you have to have a legitimate reason to hold it.
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