I always find myself underneath !!

Discussion in 'MMA' started by Jay, Dec 18, 2003.

  1. Jay

    Jay New Member

    Ooo errr .. yes I know that sounds a bit fruity :D

    Grappling / sparring from the knees I always find myself too eager to just pull guard. I can hold it for ages and escape most submission attempts, but it's getting on my nerves .. there is only so many hours of knee-on-stomach that I can stand !!

    Do I need to be more aggressive ?

    Should I use the 'combat base' ?

    What d'ya think ? Any advice would be appreciated.

  2. SoKKlab

    SoKKlab The Cwtch of Death!

    One, don't go there. Set yourself the goal of remaining upright and resisting attempts to go over, IE Resist...

    Set yourself the goal that every time you get in the guard on the deck, you are going to use a reversal to get you out of the situation and either back to an upright position or into some kind of Mount situation.

    Otherwise you'll end up just being the guy who's like the Barnacle on the bottom of the boat.

    Although fighting from the guard is an admirable skill in itself, I don't really feel that anyone should ever feel too comfortable in such a situation, work on working on yourself. Live a little.

    'This week I'll be mostly NOT in the guard'.
  3. Trent Tiemeyer

    Trent Tiemeyer Valued Member

    Sweeps, baby.:)
  4. Jay

    Jay New Member

    LOL .. I like it :D I'm gonna use that.

  5. Cyph

    Cyph Banned Banned

    can hold it for ages and escape most submission attempts

    My guard isn't too great either, but why would you want to merely 'hold' guard and escape submission attempts from within guard?!
  6. WolverineGuy

    WolverineGuy New Member

    I find its easier for me to go straight into the guard and work out of it...but thats' because I suck in the clinch. My takedowns are not all that great, but once I get on the ground, I usually have quite an advantage. Having said that, I really need to work on that aspect of my game.
  7. Ad McG

    Ad McG Troll-killer Supporter

    I wouldn't say don't do it, but just don't do it all the time. If you know someone is skilled or strong in a clinch, make sure you can get into your guard but don't go there straight away because it looks silly. A friend of mine was recently at a groundfighting competition with mostly jiu jistu clubs and went down into his guard straight away most of the time, waiting for the opponent to come in. People were stood at the side going "what is he doing?" and sniggering away, until of course he beat everybody apart from another student from our club in the final, which is when praise began to be lavished on our senseis :D . If you think you can beat someone in a clinch, go for that because you will be able to gain a far more advantageous position more easily than from the guard. It also depends on how skilled the opponent is at passing the guard, how good you are at getting an advantage from the guard position etc. I know I like to go from the guard position straight to submissions or into different mounts and often prefer it to the clinch, but I won't do it all the time. Sometimes the element of surprise at the start can get you into a very good position such as the cross mount quite easily. It all depends on the situation, but you should definitely practice other aspects other than just sitting in the guard. Knee on belly is a far more fun position to be in :D
  8. Trent Tiemeyer

    Trent Tiemeyer Valued Member

    "A friend of mine was recently at a groundfighting competition with mostly jiu jistu clubs and went down into his guard straight away most of the time, waiting for the opponent to come in."

    Ah. The dreaded "Brazilian Butt-Flop".
  9. Ad McG

    Ad McG Troll-killer Supporter

    haha, true, but hey if you're fighting against people who don't know what you're doing, you can make them look like inadequate fools who are mocking what they don't know :D
  10. Levo

    Levo Nathan Leverton

    If you're going to take guard from the knees learn some sweeps.

    Getting guard is never the end, you take guard to sweep or submit.

    Are you using a closed guard? If so, try playing an open guard like the Butterfly Guard / Sitting Guard.

    As an alternative I like to use wrestling moves off the knees, in particular the armdrag and snapdown. Been known to shoot a single now and again as well.

    Roy Harris has a good video tape just on moves off your knees.

  11. Andrew Green

    Andrew Green Member

    Try starting in different positions.

    Or isolate takedowns from the knees. Just fight for a takedown, once your down get back up and repeat.

    Try sparring a little under more "wrestling like" rules. If your shoulders touch mat you loose.

    If you're pulling closed guard, I'd say stop. I generally consider closed guard something to be avoided, not looked for.
  12. Sonshu

    Sonshu Buzz me on facebook


    I never end up on my back and have decided to work fighting from my back as it dawned on me about a year ago that I knew no subs from my back or guard.

    If I get on my back I then fight to the mount or top position/side controls. This is where I am best.

    Now though I can fight from my back and sub people from my back but I will still always go for the top spot, the people I train with its the less agressive people who go to there backs I find as I am fairly agressive and go straight in.

    Perhaps give this a go and see how you get on?

    Let us know.
  13. Levo

    Levo Nathan Leverton

    My experience is mostly the same as Sonshu's in that the less aggressive guys tend to be the ones that choose to go to their backs (although there are some damn aggressive guard fighters out there too).

    But I'd just like to add a little something...

    Personally I wouldn't recommend aggressiveness as a short term tactic for getting on top if you want to progress your ground game in the long term.

    During a fight use everything you can but during training always look for a technique driven solution over an attribute driven solution.

    You can only progress so far with an attribute driven solution (how aggressive can you get?) but the technique driven growth is almost unlimited (100's of techniques, developing timing etc).

    In addition, in a fight it'll be easier to call up attributes to support a solid technical game than the other way around.

    You may find many of the techniques for getting on top require attributes such as aggression and explosiveness but make sure your focus is on learning the correct technique and timing first.

    Just a thought.

  14. Jay

    Jay New Member

    Thanks for the advice - when I say I pull guard, I dont just lie there holding tight, I am working for sweeps / subs / openings / escapes. I personally think it is an aggresion thing - I think I go to my back too easily instead of going for a more dominant position.

    I'll give a few different things a try .. after xmas of course :D

  15. TheMachine

    TheMachine Valued Member

    either you work on sweeps or you improve your triangle base. Remember, you don't tire out as much when you're in the guard
  16. Sonshu

    Sonshu Buzz me on facebook

    You do tire more on in the guard

    than on top provided when you are on top you have good control of your opponent as if you have no control true you will tire quick but any skilled MMA person wants to be going for control and position.

    Fighting from your back can be good but as is said sweeps are key. I find my focused agression and explosive start puts me in a good position even with bigger stronger guys. Also luck helps as well I guess.

    To me all my fighting ability is on instinct and still have a lot of skills to develop.

    Its all good fun.
  17. SteveJKDUK

    SteveJKDUK New Member

    My guard game has improved slightly from just remembering what I was taught about getting out of that situation. At first, all I did was flap about and struggle, which does no good at all. Nowadays, I try to shrimp and at least get a leg or foot in between me and the guy I'm rolling with to make some room. That will make sweeps and stuff a bit easier to do!

    I've also started switching to an open/butterfly guard because I feel I have more control. I'm still rolling and learning though.

    Good fun isn't it!
  18. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

  19. Levo

    Levo Nathan Leverton

    Thank you :D


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