Sorry dude you missed the point. I am not all about kicking but, Trust me. All I am saying is there is more to martial arts than history that is all.
All of you who think we Koreans make up our history really need to get a life and quit your blatant racism. If anyone falsifies history, it's the Americans. If anyone gets suckered into stuff by nationalism, it's the Americans. So before you run around accusing Korean "nationalists" take into consider your very own nationalists, you racists.
Ok as I'm a Brit I'm exempt form that remark! BUT I believe what you've said above pretty much qulaifies as a personal attack, don't you agree? To be honest questions about lineage have nothing to do with race do they? If someone says they were taught by someone else but will not or cannot provide some form of proof of this then it makes people wonder why. If it concerns you so much why not point out the errors in peoples statements instead of being insulting?
The complication between relevance of the history lies in misinterpretations. HRD does not, contrary to arguments, claim that the system is hundreds of years old, passed along magically from a monk. HRD is a system created by Dr. Joo Bang Lee. Yes, you are right by saying that! Martial skills weren't taught like that until modern times -- so I think you have to understand that first. Once you do, then you understand where Jungdo was coming from better, and why history is not looked at in the same way between all of us. Not because history isn't important, but because we are coming from different points of view that affect relevance. As for not answering questions, all have been addressed repeatedly. -Expulsions? Again, I was at the place it affected and it would have played out the same if he was a Commissioned Officer in the armed forces. It was not good. But it is not appropriate to pursue. What part of that is confusing? -Existance of Suahm Dosa? How? Even Dugan, GJ's main source, states in the very link he sent that he believed Joo Bang Lee learned under Suahm Dosa. His speculation was to what he was teaching, such as maybe healing arts, meditation, or whatever... but not that he never existed. And that was written at a very bitter time for him. Think about that when considering crediblity of all sources. Now, you know to ask for proof of what Suahm Dosa taught exactly would be ridiculous. You don't have to be a Korean to know that the answer to that is impossible. You know it, I know it. Consider motivations. What personal benefit does he gain by just making up a claim? When new students roll in, do you think 99.999% care? Think about it. What profit would it provide that is so significant as to make him draft up a false historical claim? It surely isn't business or fame. HRD is a relatively small and elite art run in such a way that it will never be for everyone nor become available in every city; and never attain massive wealth as a business venture. It is not meant to be. There are better business strategies to take if wanting to 'spread' or be bigger. On the contrary, Dr. Joo Bang Lee has dedicated his whole life to ensuring that HRD remains strict and of the highest quality, and that the spirit of the Hwarang continues - the spirit of continual self-betterment and the pursuit of living a warrior path. That is full life-dedication to the art. Not to make money, or to sell products, or run a bodyguard business... Only HWARANGDO forever.
Wrong! Go back to post 121 where I provide a link to a prior post of yours. You indeed have talked about ex-members- in fact you accused them of all sorts of nasty things. It is only now when you are being asked for proof of those accusations that you are no willing to talk about ex-members. This whole thing about how Hwarang-do has accused people of crimes on its web site and sentenced them in a court without them being able to defend themselves and with no proof that others can see is just wrong. It is what cults do. You see Scientology do this when ex-members expose what they do. This whole thing started when we had a conversation about the Hwarang-do and the ninja. You suggested we look at the Hwarang-do web site for history, someone else suggested that we look at what Bob Duggan wrote for a different outlook and then you used the old cult trick of saying we should not listen to Duggan because he was a bad man. Now of course, you are trying to do the same tactic in regards to me. It is amusing that you have been trying to paint me as a ex-member and even maybe Duggan himself! You don't seem to want to deal with facts because the facts do not support you. It is easier to deal in charecter assasination than in honest debate for you. Well, as I wrote back to you after you threatened me by PM, some of us are pretty stubborn and will do theexact opposite of what those that threaten us want just to show them up. So the more you attack me, the more I will trot out facts that show Hwarang-do for what it truely is.
Before you try to change your story, you should try to change your web site. http://www.hwarangdo.com/hrd1.htm Oops!!!! So the official Hwarang-do site says that Joo Bang Lee learned ancient secret Hwarang combat skills!!!! So now, prove that he did learn those skills better than Ashida Kim can prove he learned ninjutsu from a guy named Shendai. And why should we trust someone like you when it is so obvious that you would do this type of thing to protect your orginization?
People say TKD's history is ********. First of all, nobody ever said Taekwondo was 242323423487234 yrs old. Taekwondo is more like 60 yrs old, k? What they're saying is that Taekwondo was HEAVILY INFLUENCED by age-old ancient Korean arts like Subak and Taekyon. We wouldn't be having this problem if people knew how to read.
So, all those Koreans marching in protest about Japanese history textbooks are racist? Think about it. If you have no problem with the idea of the Japanese putting a spin on history, then how can you scream about the idea of Koreans doing the same thing? If you want to be consistant, then maybe you should go and counter those protests going on in Seoul.
When I left this thread, it was a slightly controversial but well articulated discussion on the issue of misconstrued links between Korean martial arts of today and those of the Three Kingdoms. Grim and Jungdo you have made your points. Grim has his questions. Jungdo feels like he has answered them. Rather than deevolving this partially educating thread to a retarded flame war and helping advocate the horrible reputation MAP forums has, just let it go. You've both said all you could say. Can we get back on topic before the mods close this thing and then everyone misses out on the valuable viewpoints that were described before page 8? History. And as this post: This is ridiculous. First of all, to appreciate Korean martial arts as cultural arts you have to take its history into account. The generations of traditions that real people built should not be defiled by misrepresentation of their true origins. If you're interested in only combat fighting aspects of a system, fine, then you have no business contributing to a thread for practitioners who are interested in getting the full art experience from their training. Secondly, there is nothing racist about the prior history discussion. I am Korean. I am stating that there has been some misrepresentation of the histories of Korean martial arts by teachers, masters, students, websites, books, etc. Whether this is done for business or pride reasons, I don't know and those implications you are drawing yourself. I personally don't care who did it or why. I only care for the individuals of the previous generations who built these traditions and arts, pouring their sweat, blood, lives and souls into what they believe to be a gift to the world - to not give credit where it is due, to attribute it to some legends and historical celebrities of ancient Korea is a crime to those who built the Korean martial arts shortly after liberation in 1945. This generation will soon be gone, and I swear to God they will not be forgotten.
Hooray!!!! Now, if you will take the heat everytime someone tries to brand us as racist, maybe we can discuss history and the like in a civilized manner.
I am going to give you an early x-mas present. I am not going to say or coment on any other post about hwa rang do anymore. And it is not because you are right by any stretch of imagination. However I have a life and wish to continue it. And I will no longer be posting on this forum. It has been fun messing with you this hole time though. So have fun with your little cult talk. I am sure you will build one of your own on this forum soon. SO have fun. Hwa rang Forever! Jungdo
That was a rather mean-spirited way of saying you were taking your marbles and going home because you can't deal with me in an honest debate. If you had been really interested in not sparring back and forth with me, you could have done like I did and simply not posted or dealt with the matter and instead deal with the historical matters as Eternal rage suggested. But instead you wanted to get in the last word. Try again and get in the last word. I know you want to.
Oh, I had nothing against the art at first. I merely took Jungdo to task in a thread in the ninjutsu section over the way he wanted to slime some alternate points of view rather than deal with the facts they laid out about Hwarang-do. Jungdo then made the mistake of trying to threaten me by saying he would do his best to trash me on line if I did not give up and let him have his say. This is just my way of pointing out that I am not the type to buckle under threats. And the more I learn about Hwarang-do (thanks to Jungdo's threat) the more I honestly feel that it is a dangerous cult and more people need to learn about it. I really have no anger, this is just what needs to be done. I go after Ashida Kim type frauds as well. Of course, I find it interesting that you joined up and came straight here to make it sound like I have some sort of agenda.
No I did not this was just the first post I made. With all due respect sir, I think you need to get over yourself. I just asked why you disliked the art. That is all nothing more or less. So I think it is you sir who owes apology. For I have not done anything to you or said anything that would make you feel that I have. I hope that you do no treat the rest of the people on this forum they way you have with me sir.
So er what MA do you do Mystic Warrior? He's always been nice enough to me! Have to admit it is a bit strange that you've just joined and come right to this thread? Most people do an intro or turn up in other areas.
Right now none, I am kind of looking around to see what is out there. I have done some of everything. I kind of find myself liking the bujinkan system. And some of the kuk sool won stuff too. The only problem is that, there is only realy tae kwon do schools around me for the most part that is. I am however kind of close to the U of M bujinkan school. And I am thinking about checking it out. Just to see what it is all about. Said I am in school and most of my time is there or at work. So train will be thrown into my life when I have free time. And also to see if I can work with the instructor about training times. I also would like to learn some hung gar or capoeira would be cool too. And I am in the intro part of the forum, just got to look guys. LOL
