Human rights protect non humans again

Discussion in 'Off Topic Area' started by dentoiwamaryu, Oct 1, 2009.

  1. dentoiwamaryu

    dentoiwamaryu Valued Member

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/8284192.stm

    Ok we are all holding back from puking our load over this story, but does anyone else have a problem understanding the police statement-

    "The probability I would have to say is very low that we will identify any of these children "????????????????

    To me its pretty simple, they have admitted what they have doen, so they have also admitted they are not human beings. I cant see any problem with "forcing" them to tell who the children are. They must know and yes i mean doing what ever it takes to find out, id do it with a gleeful smile on my face. would love to watch them scream as i pull out there finger nails and dip them in salt. ANY human rights belivers here think im wrong? any one want to say its better to let the people go to jail for the short sentence they will recieve and never find out who the children where, rather than upset the Devils spawn and abuse there human rights????

    Amazing how the uk goverment are happy to let so called terroists be tortured by evil amaerica and they will keep there mouths shut, but protecting there own peoples children is different.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2009
  2. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    All of which would make you no better than them.
     
  3. Moosey

    Moosey invariably, a moose Supporter

    Torture is ineffective as a means of extracting information. The incentive in cases of torture is not to tell the truth, it's to stop the torture. There would be no difference from the torturee's perspective between giving a false series of names and giving the real names if either would stop the torture. They've been convicted, they'll go to prison, I don't think there's anything more to gain.

    The best thing the local authorities could do would be to encourage all the parents of kids who attended the nursery to sit down and have a talk with their child and ask if any of these incidents happened to them and if so, offer them counselling, guidance or support.
     
  4. dentoiwamaryu

    dentoiwamaryu Valued Member

    "All of which would make you no better than them"

    That is the answer that i find hardest to understand, its what i would expect a typical usless human rights or civil liberty group to stand up and say.

    No it would not, i am a human being who believes in PUNISHMENT for these NON HUMAN BEINGS. I dont belive in rehibilitation for them. Its answers like that that have turned this countryt is to the weak no punishing country that it is now. Civil liberties and human rights idiots will do anything to protect the most evil in our country. So if these evil scum refuse to talk we just roll over and give them a nice warm cell and warm meals with more human rights than a victim????

    I FIND IT IMPOSSIBLE TO SEE HOW MY ACTIONS ARE ANYTHING LIKE A BEASTS
     
  5. Moi

    Moi Warriors live forever x

    What do you do then?
     
  6. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    Yeah, I would expect a group with strong morals to agree with me.
    Of course you dont. Concentration camp guards didn't think they were doing anything wrong either.

    We should round up all the people that we consider non human and kill them. We could call it 'The Final Solution'
     
  7. dentoiwamaryu

    dentoiwamaryu Valued Member

    I had no idea the nazis final solution was for non humans who had admitted the most eveil crimes inhumanity! sorry i thought it was agianst an innocent race of people. oh well my mistake.

    Guess it sok to just ask them if the knew who the children where, they say no or refuse to talk then its a simple of case of oh well we will leave it at that then as we dont want to upet the beasts or breach there human rights, lets just send them to prison for a very short time.

    YE SOUND LIKE JUSTICE lol:woo::woo::woo:
     
  8. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    As far as they were concerned, being a Jew was one of the most evil crimes possible and they acted in accordance with your views.
    Torture is never justified.

    And who said they were going to prison for a short time? The law tends to be rather firm when the crimes are this serious.

    Your argument is flawed on so many different levels, I'm almost impressed by the shear chaos of it.
     
  9. dentoiwamaryu

    dentoiwamaryu Valued Member

    lol Cool Holy, at least we both feel the same about each other ideas. If mines is flawed your is just a joke dude.
     
  10. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    Which part would you like me to expand upon?

    The part where I compare your philosophy to those of the Nazi's
    The part where I state that torture can't be justified
    The part where I state that your argument is flawed
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 1, 2009
  11. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    Wrong. Terrorist threatens London with a dirty bomb. You need info fast. You call Jack Bauer and let the torture begin!

    The torture of one ****-ant man vs. the lives of millions of decent people. It's a no brainer.

    Anything can be justified. If some dude rapes and tortures your daughter one day or your mum, you may surprise yourself what you could justify.. never say never!
     
  12. Timmy Boy

    Timmy Boy Man on a Mission

    I do think the term "Nazi" is overused in these debates. The thing that really disgusts people about the holocaust was that the victims were innocent people picked merely because of their "race". If you are a paedophile, however, you have chosen to commit an act that hurts others, which makes it a crime even by liberal standards. You might not agree that these people should be tortured and killed but comparing dentoiwamaryu to the Nazis misses an important distinction.

    It's extremely surprising that these people came forward to admit to what they did, especially as they confessed to 37 out of 38 accounts. I don't see many future confessions taking place if people know they will be tortured as a result, so for policy reasons alone I think we should lay off the torture. They are still going to be punished for their actions.

    As a side note (I say a side note because prison is awful at rehabilitating offenders), dentoiwamaryu, I question why you don't like rehabilitation. It's a lot more effective at preventing reoffending than just punishing people or locking them up ad nauseum.
     
  13. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    Wrong. Alleged terrorist lies to you in order to get you to stop, bomb goes off.
    Wrong. The torture of one man goes a long way to justifying the hatred he feels towards this country. Also, it's never the torture of one man, it never stops there. Once you've done it once, it becomes easier to do it again and before you know it, you stop wasting time with standard interrogation techniques and jump straight into the torture.
    It wouldn't be justified, you might be able to convince yourself that your actions were fair and right - just like I imagine a lot of Nazi's did in WWII, but that wouldn't make your actions justified any more than it makes the holocaust justified.
     
  14. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    What makes anything justified then ?

    It isn't agreement - I'll tell you that much.
     
  15. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    Well if the info is lies you carry on. You could also use drugs on them - you know like Jack sometimes uses a truth serum.. Go Jack!

    Yea we should give him a house and health benefits instead. Seriously I couldn't care less what he thinks at this point..

    Well drastic situations call for drastic measures. You are just assuming there will be abuse of such a system. Maybe there will, maybe there won't

    So what makes putting people in jail justified ?

    Or the electric chair, lethal injection, going to war ?

    I'm sure lots of nazi war criminals came to grizzly ends, i don't hear you batting for them. Comparing me to a nazi for wanting retribution if my mum or daughter were raped and tortured is ridiculous!!
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2009
  16. Fire-quan

    Fire-quan Banned Banned

    It would be nice if these issues had clear, obvious boundaries that everyone could agree on. But they clearly don't.

    I sometimes hear people say stuff like they'd like a paedophile to be tortured every day for the rest of their lives. I think that if you enjoy the suffering of others, then you enjoy the suffering of others - and it's far more about you getting off on the thought of someone being tortured than it is about justice or just deserts.

    There's actually another issue with child protection here. If a parent says around their child that if anyone hurt or abused their child they'd kill them, then that might make an abused child fear the consequences of telling the parents what's going on - fearing that the parent will kill the person and go to jail and leave them.

    On the other hand, I'm sure many of us only raise an eye brow of 'well, that's what you get I'm afraid...' when we think of the treatment a horrendous child abuser is going to get in jail.

    Giving a definitive yes or no answer is for idealists, saints, or people who don't have much sense of practical dillema. For example, remember the Belgian paedophile who had one - or was it two? - young girls buried alive in coffins? They knew he had them. But he deliberately let them die, while he was in custody. Tell me - if that was your daughter, would you just let them die to avoid the damaging of that guy's human rights? I wouldn't. I couldn't.

    But I don't think torturing people to reveal which children were involved is proportionate.

    With these emotional issues, people forget to consider the bigger picture. Once you tell the government and police that it's ok to torture people in some circumstances, the boundaries of what constitutes those circumstances inevitably widens.. and widens... If you don't believe it, look at anti-terros laws being used by councils to spy on parents lying about being in school catchment areas, or police asking British citizens to produce passports as they travel to Scotland. ALWAYS consider carefully before asking the Government to use draconian powers - or you might find that it's your human rights that end up having no power to protect you. Histroy teaches us that it always starts with removing the rights of people no one else cares about, or cares to do anything to protect - like homosexuals, communists, Jews, gypsies... paedophiles nowadays.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2009
  17. embra

    embra Valued Member

    A well balanced post FQ, on a contentious and tricky matter.
     
  18. Fire-quan

    Fire-quan Banned Banned

    Damn - you have to be careful with your spelling with this subject!

    Paedophile = lover of children in unnatural way.

    Peadophile - abuses tins of mushy peas.

    Pedophile - the American spelling - surely means 'lover of feet'?
     
  19. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    good post FQ.
     
  20. Timmy Boy

    Timmy Boy Man on a Mission

    How do you know if they're lying or not?

    So because we don't want to torture him that means we want to reward him?

    If human history is anything to go by, they will.

    I'm actually with you on this point. Holyheadjch, I agree that torture is wrong but in my humble opinion this is a bad line of argument you're pursuing. If we can't torture people because the Nazis did it then you might as well say we can't punish people at all.

    Fire-Quan, your post was very good. Legislative creep is a serious threat.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2009

Share This Page