How would you react to

Discussion in 'Women's Self Defence' started by Tansy, Jun 27, 2006.

  1. Tansy

    Tansy I train ninja guinea pigs

    ...this situation.

    I was last night with a mate, we decided to go home and walked our way back through the streets of London and I needed the ladies! so I walked with my mate to the nearest pub. I walked in and they were having some musical night with a guy dressed as a girl, as I stared and laughed at his silly jokes, I went to step onto the stairs down to the loo and felt a grab hard on my arm. I thought some drunk bloke was going to go "Alright darlin!" but I turned and this little angry face looked at me and said firmly "Where are you going!" I said "Ladies toilet". The guy swung me round and said "NO!" and was about to drag me out the pub but I swung myslef from his grip and firlmy went"OK fine" with my hands up I grabbed my mate and walked out.

    As I went on and on to him about how angry I was he said "You know it was a guy night, men only they didn't say but you could tell" I was really confussed and then the guy in the dress telling the jokes made me go "Oh, yeah". After a while I thought about it, whether that guy was dragging me out because I was female or was he a weirdo, and then I thought what would have happened if he didn't let go when I swung my arm out would I be allowed to hit him?

    What would you have done?

    Tans
     
  2. Lucy O'Malley

    Lucy O'Malley The Mother Art

    I think the event/pub should have been clearly signed, 'no women' or 'men only' or something if you seriously were not allowed in.

    I guess I would have to read the situation by what the bloke actually said to you other than 'No'. Did he say you had to leave, was he a door superviser or landlord or just a member of the public?

    You would not be able to just hit him unless you had real grounds for feeling threatened/scared.

    Perhaps they just did not want you to use the toilet without buying a drink, I always buy a drink even if I am only wanting to use their toilet, otherwise it seems a bit rude and maybe had you gone to the bar you would have been told politely that you were not welcome.

    I guess had he of been a weirdo, you will never know and would not have known until he had dragged you outside and then his intentions would have probably been clear by this point.

    It is hard to say really, but maybe you did shake yourself free from what could have been a troublesom situation.

    Lots of love :love:

    Lucy
     
  3. narcsarge

    narcsarge Masticated Whey

    Tansy, here in the states, the mere fact that he grabbed you gives you the right to defend yourself. To what degree is dictated by circumstances. For instance, when you broke his grip and he did not try to grab you again, you have ended your use of force. Now, if he had grabbed you and struck him in the nose and then went "oh my! Sorry!" you would still be ok. Both of those scenarios are you responding to being assaulted (def: the unwanted physical contact of another). Once you broke free and if he pursued you, then again, drop him hard while yelling "I don't want to hurt you! Stop! I don't want to hurt you". Only thing people would remember was that you were backing up yelling "Stop!" and that you did not want to hurt the man! Not sure about the UK though.
     
  4. Tansy

    Tansy I train ninja guinea pigs

    The bloke was plain clothed and not secruity neither was he part of the bar staff who had uniforms. He may well have been the land lord but if that was me I would have said to the person "Sorry, the pub is closing soon and you will have to buy a drink to use the loo" not grab me and swing me round of my feet, he honestly said just 'no' and nothing else no explanation.

    There was a secruity gaurd at the door who allowed me and my mate through, also although my mate said it was an all blokes night there was no notice up and I swear I saw anouther female!my mate said he did too and to add to the weirdness the door person was a woman too!

    I just remember stumbling when I let his grip go, I was quite annoyed but sort of scared he was just angry and I seriously thought he was going to drag me outside and throw me into the streets!perhaps he was jelous he was not a woman :D

    UK law is a funny old thing, too much legsilation and too many people getting away with very serious crimes. Don't get me started on the judges and recent up roar in parliment over them handling cases. :mad:

    Tans
     
  5. Tansy

    Tansy I train ninja guinea pigs

    Also I worked in a pub and I calmly told a man weilding a large spanner to leave the pub. So when it comes to approaching a situation I have experience.

    Tans
     
  6. Lucy O'Malley

    Lucy O'Malley The Mother Art

    Well if the door staff let you in, then there was no issue there then.

    It sounds so odd, what is wrong with people. What makes them think they can grab someone without an explanation anyway.

    I now honestly think, given those circumstances, I would have just clumped him one and blended into the crowd, giving no explanation either.

    I was once in a bar and I had been queing for ages to get a drink....I finally got it to be grabbed by a bloke extremely hard on my arm, but he said; "your coming home with me" and started to drag me towards the door.

    I was actually in shock for a few moments thinking eh!, my drink got spilt in the hard wrenching tug to my arm, so I shouted out, "get off me, who do you think you are and you spilt my drink" and proceeded to check him (palm strike)very hard to the sternum, which lifted him off the floor and over the bar. Everybody clapped and a while after he lept up but by this point I had loads of people stood behind me as if to say go on son, try it again. He left the bar.

    I remember thinking for ages after....what on earth gave him the right to think he could just drag someone out of the bar...I mean had he of got me that far...what was his intentions really, other than the obvious. Do you think he would of taken it further?

    It is worrying and I am only glad it was me he decided to try it with and not someone with less ability or confidence.

    But has he before or after and the same in your case...it is highly unlikely that you or me were just a one off. They think there are no rules for them, so sod it the only way to deal with them is the same, no rules.

    Just act all girly girly straight after and you will be fine.

    Lots of love :love:

    Lucy
     
  7. CosmicFish

    CosmicFish Aleprechaunist

    Tansy, for what it's worth, the guy sounds like a total ****. Even if you shouldn't have been in there, there's never any excuse to start tugging someone around like that. An "excuse me miss, it's men only tonight, would you leave please" is all that's needed, perhpas with a touch on the shoulder to get your attention, if required.
     
  8. narcsarge

    narcsarge Masticated Whey

    Then it sounds like you handled everything perfectly. No one got hurt, except maybe some feelings. It was not appropriate for the gent to act as he did. I was raised that gentleman do not grab ladies! Hell I had a girlfriend throw a glass bottle at my head! I asked to leave my parents house. When she refused I dialed the Police. She slammed the phone down and started hitting me. I wrapped her up, put outside the door, set her on her feet and closed the front door. I hated it but she was destroying my families house! You did well.
     
  9. TigerDude

    TigerDude Valued Member

    In the States, unwanted contact is battery. Any threat can be assault.

    I would think that pulling your arm free & giving him a thump would be acceptable, and at least morally justified.
     
  10. NewLearner

    NewLearner Valued Member

    Tansy, I obviously wasn't there and don't know what happened. But I would have to ask, did the guy seem drunk? Was it a loud and boisterous bar? Could it have been a case where the guy was really trying to be helpful to you but may you didn't hear him warning you and so he grabbed you to get your attention?
     
  11. NewLearner

    NewLearner Valued Member

    Unwanted contact is not battery. Any threat is not an assault. And giving the guy a "thump" just might land you in jail. It certainly is not "at least morally justified" if there was no real threat.
     
  12. Tansy

    Tansy I train ninja guinea pigs


    It was just an avarage pub, the guy was sober because he didn't smell of alcohol looked like he wanted control. Besides, you should never grab someone especially if they are smaller then you. As I said I worked in a pub I never did that neither did the staff, if there is trouble the staff should be responsible and phone 999. I had to when a fight kicked of.
    Also I don't look threatening, I may wear allot of black but if I was wearing the wrong stuff he should have said there should have been a sign outside.

    Never ever let someone grab you, I didn't slam my fist into and scream but I was prepared to hit him if he pulled me out the door.

    Tans
     
  13. NewLearner

    NewLearner Valued Member

    I was thinking of the nice guy who may not have been thinking but wanted to keep you from accidentally walking into the restroom with a bunch of men. As you said, it didn't appear that he worked for the pub.

    Or it could have been an undercover cop trying to keep you from walking into a sting operation. Or a bodyguard, or a lot of other things.

    It is unusual that the person grabbed you, wanted to keep you from the ladies room, and didn't proceed any further than that. It definitely makes you wonder about the reason. On the other hand, the important thing is that you are ok.
     
  14. Pitfighter

    Pitfighter Valued Member

    Anytime someone grabs me hard at a bar and I know it ain't a pal I throw them down. Maybe not the best instinct but it is my gut reaction. Never been to the no part. I imagine that oddly enough I'm more passive to a firm "NO!" than I am to a grab.
     
  15. karate princess

    karate princess Savvy??

    ditto.

    i also think you did the right thing by pulling away from the guy (or whatever he calls himself), and that you kept your cool and just walked out calmly.
     

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