Ok so here is the deal. You have just died. What's more, you find you know you are dead, therefore there is still a certin part of you that exists to make that realisation. Good news so far. All your life you have believed in god(s), whatever form they have taken, and so you are now on the look out for said God(s). You now discover that you were completely wrong about your religion. Lets say you were a christian and you find that the Islamic faith was correct or visa versa etc. Reflecting back over your life how do you feel? Was it wasted? Did your religion let you live your life to the full or did it put needless restrictions on you? Would you still live your life the same way again given the chance or would you change it if that meant changing who you essentially were? Can i hear from anyone with strong religious views? Personally my concern for those who follow a religion is that by some random chance (now remember that this is only my view) life has been created on this planet and by an even more incredible chance, you are alive. If you are religious then i see that huge restrictions have been placed on you, stopping you doing a lot of things that (if it turns out god is not real) are not in essence "bad". Lets remember that even if you are not religious, the majority of our laws today were first laid out by the church, and thus in a weird kind of way, religious laws are being iposed upon you. How does everyone else feel about that? Kind regards
As I dont really prescribe to any form of organised religion, I'm not sure if I'm who you're after, but here goes anyway! I usually try to do what I believe is 'right' in terms of what my own concience tells me. I'm aware that this gives me a moral code that is unique to me (although I dont think there's too much that's really out there!) Sometimes I do things that I think are right at the time, and decide later werent. Where possible, I admit cupability and apologise, or at least accept the consequences. Sometimes I do things that I know are wrong, and I do them anyway. I accept that in this respect I am a bad person and am prepared to accept the consequnces of my actions. Because I'm not a traditionally religious person, I've never done anything because I think my 'higher being' wants me to, or because I think it'll get me into 'heaven'. I do it because my concience tells me I can either live with it or accept the consequences. I've often wondered what would happen if it turned out that there was a god, and eventually decided that I have lived my life to the best of my capabilities and have tried to be a 'good' person, for no other reason than it seemed the right thing to do. If god condems me for this just because I didnt do it in his/her/its name they can shove their nirvana!
Let me ask you something BBJ: Do you meditate daily? If you do it for a while you'll find the answer to what is nagging your mind. Regards.
I am not religious, but i often ponder on questions like these. Your dillemma is stil apllicable to me--> what if i, after spending my whole life as a non believer, find out that there is a one true god?: I think that in my case, it depends on the consequenses. If i end up in hell, or suffer some kind of other eternal punishment in after life, yes maybe i would like to re-live my life as a believer. But on the other hand, what gives a a holy entity the right to punish me if he/she makes mistakes to, because the world is far from perfect. I think that i would confront the god(s) with this and some related questions. If i even get the chance to relive my life as a believer, i do no think i would accept it. I have no regret for not believing in a religion that leaves the world in his current, messy state. Reconsidering, if i end up in hell i would rather try to kill myself. No one can stop me on that. Or maybe i would fight--> 'they' would have to kill me for good to stop me. But more on topic--> no, i wouldn't have any big regrets for not believing in 'the one and only the holy'.
Not at all, I think that if you believe in a religion and spend time trying to improve yourself and to become a better person, you and the world will have become a better place because of it. I don't know how that could be viewed as failing in your spiritual or secular life. :Angel:
Whilst being agnostic these days on the subject of gods and holding a personal belief in most of the tenets of the Buddhist way, I would tend towards the view that if one lived sincerely by the rules of your faith without extremism (and with a genuine desire to do good rather than evil whilst recognising that all beings are imperfect and will fall from the way occaisionally), any god that didn't then admit one to their heaven due to some points of dogma would not be one worth following. Or in the words of NinjaBellydance, "..they can shove their nirvana." As for living a different life the second time round. I find this a self defeating option as I wouldn't then be me. Hope this makes sense. Cheers, Matt.
blackbelt - I think the gist of your question is more about the trappings of religion than anything else. All major religions have a core of caring for those you have direct contact with, and treating others the way you would like to be treated. I actively don't practice any religion but I know that if I'm wrong and St Peter is waiting up there beside the pearly gates, I'd have a good case to argue if I had lived the way I know is "right" (i.e. being an active, decent member of society). If there's a god or gods who think wearing a little hat, or eating a certain type of animal, or worshipping a certain individual is more important than being a moral/righteous person, I have no time for those gods and I'd rather take my chances.
You might want to read, if you haven't already, 'The Da Vinci Code' by Dan Brown, then 'Cracking the Da Vinci Code' by someone else whose name I can't currantly remember. The first is a story, but the second is the facts behind the story. They really are quite interesting though and show a lot of things to do with modern law and the influence of the Catholic church over the past two millennia. Being Atheist I'd probably be stuffed if I came across any of the major Gods (Yahwey, Allah, or I AM) if they are how they describe themselves in their respective holy books as the very fact that I refused to acknowledge their existance would give me a one way ticket to hell. But as everyone else on this thread so far seems to have said, if you have lived a good life and the God sends you to hell because you didn't bow to them, then they are a total and utter b#$%^&d who wouldn't be worth following anyway.
Ok, so let me expand (on a bit of a tangent) on my original question: - If you were involved in a religious war (be it NATO vs "random culture with religious issues"), if it came to meeting your maker would you still be able to justify your actions morally? Remember that a soldier has very little choice in where or how he conducts his "business". I ask because the previous replies to my post all state that (roughly) if you have lived a good life then all is well regardless of religion. Is war in the name of religion acceptable/ justifiable infront of "God"? Who defines a "good life" and is an atheists defenition of a good life based on religious views? So many question, so little time! I'd really apreciate it if someone could try and tackle even a few of these. Thanks
As a Buddhist, one has read the logic behind rebirth as well as the truths that permeate all existence. The enlightened Buddha (Siddhattha Gotama) exponded the Dhamma in its perfect form. So perfect, in fact, that (imho) no man can better it. What's great about Buddhism is it is a path of the here-and-now. If you're interested, here's a famous Sutra teaching about the benifits of Buddhism in the here and now. Notice this is for the clergy, and not necessarily written for the laymen, but the more general areas still apply to us (the lay Buddhist community). http://www.tipitaka.net/tipitaka/dn02.htm Zen Buddhism in particular pays specific attention to taking the clouds away from our eyes and revealing Samsara for what it really is, Nirvana (Nibbana). See the Ox-herding pictures of Zen Buddhism for more information. Most Buddhists try to cultivate the selfish virtue of the Bodhicittva (valueing anothers life more than your own). This is brought of by the practice of Bodhisattva, which is brought on by the practice of meditation. As a matter of fact, Buddhism has many methods of cultivating the virtues of compassion, equanimity, loving-kindness and appreciative joy. But why do Buddhists try to cultivate this Great Compassion? Basic-goodness, as well as enjoying the blameless results of virtue. Also, compassion brings us inner-peace and inner-strength. See: Buddhism, the Path of the Heart: http://www.quangduc.net/English/philosophy/12thepath.html The only thing you can really have is what you carry along with you after death. What is this? Your virtue and your vices, the very Karma spouted from your intentions. Buddhists cultivate compassion because it brings them positive results, as well as others. By violating Basic-goodness, our conscious mind will haunt us. Have you ever actually seen a peaceful serial killer? A happy man starting a fight? No, these violate our basic-goodness, and being subject to the rounds of Samsara (see: the eight realsm of existence. Also note these are literal, as well as metaphorical mind states that we experience in the here-and-now) we reap what we sow (karma). I feel like I'm jabbering on here (I just returned home from work -- graveyard shift!), but if you have any questions feel free to ask. I'll try to help.
I often theorize that the afterlife may indeed simply be the instance of death. This may sound a little abstract, but since your consciousness is based on the awareness of your brain, and your brain functions on energy, then at the moment of death, that energy ends and you leave the worlds consciousness. But to you there will be a point where that instance of energy becomes infinite. I mean, essentially you form your own heaven or hell. If you're a person with many demons, you'll certainly be in hell. If you are a person who judges yourself (yes yourself) as meeting the criteria of your own beliefs then off to heaven (a preconceived heaven I suppose) you'll go. Yes, I know it's a bit abstract, but I sometimes ponder it. -Sting
Yeah, i kind of like that idea. I like to think of myself as scientifically minded and this seems to follow... to a point. I have been strangled unconcious many times through my judo. On one occasion i very nearly died. It was quite serious. I can safely say that i was about as unconcious as you can get before you sufer brain damage. Unfortunatly, at no point was i aware of any "after life" or crossing over. Nor did time stretch out to eternity. Sorry. Another consideration is that as you are dying, less and less oxygen gets to your brain so you will actually be suffering massive brain damage. Surely this would restrict the brain from momentarily, with it's last dying moment, creating a heaven or hell etc. Prehaps some others of you out there will be able to say otherwise.
AF sting - that's a very similar philosophy to that of Timothy Leary. He did a lot of writing about death and society's attitude towards it, after he was diagnosed with incurable disease. You might want to check it out. blackbelt_judoj, I disagree about your view of a soldier. Anybody has a choice, and in this day and age nobody (whether it's a nazi footsoldier, a suicide bomber or a prison guard at abu ghraib) should be able to get out of it by saying they were "just following orders". People know in their hearts whether what they're doing is right or wrong, and there should be no excuse for going against what you think is right. It's like the extraneous parts of all religions, like eating pigs. What if there was a mistranslation and Yahweh actually said it's a sin to eat ducks but pigs were ok? does that mean Jews will all go to hell because they ate ducks? No, because the important thing is whether you truly hold a belief in your heart and are willing to follow a certain course of action based on true faith. That's the meaning of the story of god testing Abraham by ordering him to kill his son (btw, I'm an atheist).
cause and effect The only thing you can really have is what you carry along with you after death. What is this? Your virtue and your vices, the very Karma spouted from your intentions. Buddhists cultivate compassion because it brings them positive results, as well as others. By violating Basic-goodness, our conscious mind will haunt us. Have you ever actually seen a peaceful serial killer? A happy man starting a fight? No, these violate our basic-goodness, and being subject to the rounds of Samsara (see: the eight realsm of existence. Also note these are literal, as well as metaphorical mind states that we experience in the here-and-now) we reap what we sow (karma). Yeah i completely agree,i'm also a practising Buddhist a different sort but yeah great piece of guidance thank you
Very good question. I am personally what is known as "Dark Neopagan" thus I usually communicate to the Gods and Goddesses of the Underworld and Night, ie Hecate, Morrigan, Anubis. Anyways, if I am completely wrong, and say, Christianity was right and God condemned me to Hell for eternity, I would go with my head up high saying I have lived my life to the fullest. If he wishes to punish me for my own sins, then by all means do so, but I find fault in his logic. Sure, you may have given me a chance to believe. But with what? When all that did was impose rules in my life, not allowing me to follow MY personal path. If you were all powerful, why not just show yourself??? Why do you have to hide in the shadows??? Surely you don't NEED to hide??? Of course he doesn't, if he is real, if he is all powerful. I would also ask him why he created me KNOWING I will be condemned, why he created millions of innocents KNOWING that most of them would be condemned just like me. Yes, I would ask him that, and I would face Hell not with fear and despair, but with Honor and Pride.
Well, here I go again....posting when I really should not... If it happens that when I die, it turns out there is a God, no matter which religion, I would be really shocked and upset that he/she/it was too stubborn and/or arrogant to just let me in on it. (Before anyone says that he tried...don't bother, that is a lame thing that religious people say). I have said before...I do not have my wife tell my kids that I exist and to just believe her and follow my rules (perhaps my wife or others who know of my existence could write them a book!)...they would never comply, nor would I expect them to as I am a reasonable man (IMHO). In order to have my children behave the way I want (in my image), I would talk to them, show myself to them and explain the whys and how comes directly to them. I have the power to do so, and I will be upset if they misbehave, so why would I do anything else, as a reasonable man? Perhaps if there is a God then he/she/it is not so reasonable and perhaps I do not want to spend an eternity with he/she/it.
Very good question. I belong to Christian church but think of all religions as "one"... like I don't think there's a need to have certain rules about whether to eat meat or how often you should pray etc. etc. I think all religions (and even science) point into same one goal which I guess in Tao (or Zen - and I don't mean Zen Buddhist, just Zen) is somehow quite nicely put. I don't know exactly "what religion kind of thinker I am" but my thoughts came first and then I saw lots of similarities with zen & tao... like if you cut the "rituals" out of buddhism or christianity and focus on "good life" (don't ask me to explain this ) you kind of get into a point where your death... or let's say "afterlife" goes as smoothly as your life does. So - I have no worries about that. (unless of course I'm kind of a wrong here with my "united religion theory" and there is a final judgement then I'm in a deep pile of poo )
Wow! Great question. I am a Christian, and if I found out after death that I was wrong and the very center of my life was false....I would be upset and dissapointed, but I would not have any regrets. My life is lived to the fulliest because of what I believe. I wouldn't regret one turned down drink, or passed on joint. I wouldn't regret one sunday not sleeping in. I would regret nothing. I do not harm people for my faith so I can not answer the question of fighting wars over religion. I wouldn't even regret sharing my faith with others. Here's the deal for me. When I got saved I fell in love with God, because I felt like he loved me so much more deeply. Once I acknowledged his love for me and began returning it to him, I wanted to do everyting possible to live by his precepts. I want to follow his rules because they are indeed for my benifit. I follow them out of desire not out of obligation. I suppose that is why I would have no regrets.
To answer the orig question, if i was a religious type, i'd be like, YOU WHAT , iv'e been following and doing this cr.p for however long and it's just a whole heap of plop, well gutted i would be
