how usefull are gun defenses?

Discussion in 'Self Defence' started by karate P.belt 2, Aug 21, 2005.

  1. karate P.belt 2

    karate P.belt 2 New Member

    we were practicing gun defenses and it Occurred to me that yes these would work almost without a doubt work up-close but what if the guys aiming at you far away then what are you go and how good do you think gun defenses are?
  2. Slindsay

    Slindsay All violence is necessary

    If someone wants to kill me then I'm boned. If a guy wants to rob me I'm going tio give him my money if he has a gun.

    So personally I dont really think spending time on gun defences is usefull, I'm never going to get a chance to use them because I'll either be dead or doing what I'm told.
  3. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    hmmm... not too sure about that. Applying blanket rules to hand guns generally leads to disasterous results. There are a gazillion varying factors involved. Every confrontation and scenario is unique.

    LOL! :D

    Come on bro... check it out:


    Your 10-15 feet away from an armed agressor intent on hurting/killing you that has a 13 round semi-automatic handgun... You have your disarment technique that has been practiced on your dojo mates with once or twice a week with fake guns

    *sound of crickets*

    Not too hard to figure out who has the advantage and who's goin to walk away unscathed is it? :bang:
  4. SCP_Kensei


    Even that situation is not cut and dried. I believe it was dan inosanto that proved a skilled knife assailant can cover 20 feet or more and deliver a killing blow in the time it takes,s a a policeman to aim adequately, process the decision tof ire and pull the trigger.

    That said, how many of us are as good as dan Inosanto?

    Gun disarmament techniques are good insituations whereby you are bing held at gun point temporarily, and you know the assailant has the desire to kill you, just not right now. For example in ahostage situation where you are being moved to a different room/locatin to be shot. You ARE going to be killed if you dont do something, so it's best to give it a try, what's the worst that can happen if you are goin to die anyway?
  5. -Sky-

    -Sky- New Member

    a slow agonizing torture-induced death for trying to escape and failing? lol
  6. Brad Ellin

    Brad Ellin Baba

    Gun defenses (at close range) can work, are a good confidence builder and are fun to practice. However, if someone pulls a gun on you and demands your money, give it to them. Too many things can go wrong and you could end up dead. If they're beyond arms reach? Run and hide. Duck and cover. Get the heck behind something if you can. Just don't stand there!
    Why bother learning gun defenses? Maybe, just maybe, there will be a time when that training is called into play and circumstances dictate that you have to do something. That the punk with a gun is going to shoot you (or someone else) no matter what and you are in the right space to do something about it. You may have not time to think about what you are doing, you just do it.
    Now, aren't you glad that you had that training?
  7. bcullen

    bcullen They are all perfect.

    I wouldn't be so confident about it. The difference between close and long range is that any half-wit with a modicum of depth perception can get an accurate shot at close range. At longer ranges if they haven't been trained then it will be dumb-luck if they hit you (I'd rather not take that chance, still).
    The principles of many gun-defences are correct, it's the practice that goes awry when applied: Like many weapon defences the flaw is that the defence doesn't take into account the counter moves of the assailant e.g. You attempt to move off-center and get control of the weapon arm (used both in gun and knife defence) Knife: The assailant moves back while slashing at your arms (whoops! that didn't go as planned.) Gun: Assailant starts firing and adjusting his postion to match your attempts to get control; with many popular models holding 10+ rounds, and you being at point blank range, the outcome isn't in your favor. The most effective weapon defences tend to be preemptive i.e. before the weapon is unholstered or unsheathed.

    If your training to defend agaisnt a knife you need to learn to fight with one. Works the same way with firearms. Having a weapon makes anyone dangerous, being trained in it's use makes you lethal, and firearms are no different.
  8. Jesh

    Jesh Dutch Side Of The Force

    KM trains this stuff a lot. And I've heard good things about their techniques considering this matter. We practice them too, but I agree they're too dangerous to attempt if you're being robbed. Just give the guy your money...

    On the other hand, if you feel like you might die and you have the opportunity to (try and) disarm the attacker... well, I'll leave that up to the individual...
  9. Matt_Bernius

    Matt_Bernius a student and a teacher

    Here are two blasts from the past that tackle issues around guns and gun defense. There's a lot of good feedback in both:

    You head to a Gun
    I epecially like this post ( - :) )

    Gun as self defense tool: Myth and reality
    (discusses the limits of a gun)

    Above all else, in most cases compliance is the way to stay safe. However, the one exception is NEVER GO ANYWHERE with an assailant (ie. get into this car or go down an alley). Someone may be incapible or at least hestiant to shoot you in broad daylight. There's no assurance that will be the case when they're in an environment they control. At that point, consider youself dead already and work your way back to life.

    - Matt
  10. Lame Leopard

    Lame Leopard Valued Member

    We've all practiced a bunch of close gun defenses, and if we can get the perp to hesitate a little, we've got a good chance to pull them off. If the guy is a little farther away, it is a different story. I doubt if criminals spend much time at the pistol range. If you can get the guy to chase after a five $ bill blowing in the wind and bolt the other direction zigzaging as you run, you have a good chance of getting away. How many times have we heard about a police offer shooting 20 rounds in the direction of the bad guy and only connecting once, if at all. The guy may make a lucky shot, but this is a high risk situation anyway. Who is to say that the guy isn't going to shoot you after he gets your wallet anyway. A witness may cause him jail time. If I was absolutely sure that I was trading my Capital One card for my life I wouldn't hesitate, but there is no guarantee.

    Also an "Amen" to what Mat Bernius said about not letting the perp take you to a different location. I'll take my chances right there, thank you.
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 22, 2005
  11. sliver

    sliver Work In Progress

    Any gun defense is a high risk manuver. Only use it if you have no other choice (as has been said before, I know). I do advocate practicing them, if only to have some idea what to do in the extremely unlikely circumstance you need them (the take the wallet defense Matt mentioned is always a much better option IMHO).

    For practicing gun defense I have to say nothing is better than a good gas powered air soft gun!! You'll know when you've been shot, as they sting quite a bit, and most are replicas of real pistols. Many even function the same way with the sao/dao options, blowback etc. Try it out sometime, it's great fun, and you just may be supprised how often you end up dead. Also, you may be supprised how easy you are to shoot from eight feet away when trying to make an escape. In my mind the only factors you have on your side in this case are 1. Your assailant may be reticent to actually fire the weapon as it will attract attention he doesn't want. 2. FBI crime statistics say 8 out of 10 people can't actually hit a target in a high stress situation like combat. I think this applies just as well to attackers as it does to defenders. and 3. As was mentioned before, most thugs probably have rarely even fired their pistols unless they have actually shot someone. That being the case, they aren't likely to be crack shots in the first place. All the same, I wouldn't get overconfident. Be well all.
  12. Ikken Hisatsu

    Ikken Hisatsu New Member

    if someone really plans on killing you with a gun they arent gonna be standing 2 feet away from you when they pull the trigger. they are gonna be standing ten feet behind you.

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