Okey dokey...now I have to step in and make a "myth" correction. What we commonly refer to as Damascus steel is actually Pattern welded steel and the process for making such has "NOTHING" to do with stabbing ANYTHING other than a bucket of brine or very warm water for "quenching". Pattern welding, the technique used by the Vikings as early as the 6th century A.D. was done by "stacking" varius grades of iron and steel "strips" together and "heat welding" them into a "billet". This billet was then drawn out by hammaring until it was the basic length of the blade you were forging. you would then take 3-4 of these drawn out billets and twist them in whatever patterns pleased you and then heat weld them together. Finally, a straight laminate edge was forged and wrapped around the outer edge of the other billets and the whole thing was then heat welded together, flattened out and shaped. a "fuller" was ground into the center and down the length of the blade to lighten and simultaneously strengthen the blade. After quenching and tempering, an edge was ground and sharpened. the blade was treated with an acidic solution such as vinegar to bring out the "pattern" of the blade. The blade was then polished and given a final sharpening after a handle had been crafted and fitted. True "Damascus" is a produced by smelting in a "crucible" and the "pattern" that is derived is a result of the impurities within the steel itself and again, has nothing to do with stabbing of anyone, live or dead. I enjoy conversations regarding ancient weapons but when the conversations are based on "my uncles, brothers, cousins, Sensei said blah blah blah" and is not based on any actual research, I tend to get a little fussy. Any statement that begins with "I heard or, the legend goes" or you heard from a friend of a friend of a friend and, cannot be backed up by hard core, reputable data, should not be made. http://www.vikingsword.com/serpent.html http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/9809/Verhoeven-9809.html http://www.bronksknifeworks.com/historical.htm
sorry to burst your bubble Virtuous... Forging of the blade and polishing does not take months Virtuous...an excellent blade can be forged in a day or two and the sharpening/polishing process can take up to 120 hours to complete and is begun by "roughing" an edge onto the blade and then using successively finer stones until the finest grade stone being used is a paper-thin stone the size of your thumb. Articles on sword polishing: http://www.galatia.com/~fer/sword/mishina/lecture.html http://home.earthlink.net/~steinrl/togishi.htm http://home.earthlink.net/~steinrl/hada.htm http://home.earthlink.net/~steinrl/hadori.htm General site on pretty much "everything" involving the japanese sword: http://home.earthlink.net/~steinrl/nihonto.htm .
Anthony - please remember that this thread has been running for nearly 10 months and some members who previously posted in it have moved on, have forgotten about the thread, or in one case, been banned, so some of your replies may fall on deaf-ears
aii but hes ben posting links to info...so maybe it should be a sticky so we dont end up haing having umpteen bajillion kanta making threads...like we have with fave weapons. HINT HINT..............
Cudgel - When I get time, I am going to do a links thread (I'm sure I did one somewhere before), but I've got a bit of work on writing things for easy-tek. Should be done ASAP, and that will be a sticky, so fear not
Coolness. Although I do not rember a links thread. I think there should also probably be a FAQ made as well, although Im not sure what should be in it.
That's Ok Gaskell...even if the original posters have moved on, as Domenico pointed out, other people still read the thread and it would be a shame for some other poster to come along and read something that has incorrect data and pass it along without getting the real scoop. directing the post to the originaly poster at this point is somewhat irrelevant...it general knowledge directed to the general populous at large.
In viking and germanic style pattern welding the steel was sometimes purified/hardened at the smelting forging to a billet stage, not with blood but with chicken manure as a source of nitrates, so I supose any organic fertiliser type gear , manure. dried blood, fishmeal etc would do for this part of the forging, not for the blade or six smithing.
Excellent point! could you provide more data on that however? I would be interested in seeing some documentation on that process.
I read somewhere, i forget where sadly, that the Norse used powdered bones in either the smelting or forging proccess.
"...Norse used powdered bones in either the smelting or forging proccess..." I don't know anything about the Norse process in particular, but bone charcoal is the most common source for Carbon when case hardening. You pack the metal in the powdered charcoal, bring it up to it's critical range where the Carbon goes into solution, and hold it there for several hours. The idea is that you are making a hardenable steel coating on iron or a low carbon steel. Nobody is really sure when Case hardening became a definable process, but the smiths were definitely aware that holding the blade at a red heat above the coal or charcoal would absorb more carbon, and was used to correct the alloy mix of the steel when you had inadvertantly burned off too much carbon. Matthew
Hi , my name is Patrick Katanas are made of 2 distinctive kinds of metals . Both are high in iron content but only one of them is made of high levels of carbon . First , the metal that makes the shape of the sword is folded on itself many times (at least 16 times) . At the very last fold , a hight carbon steel bar is inserted in betwen the last fold . This "bar" become the edge. If you look closely on a well made Katana , you can see a uneven line along the edge . The line marking the 2 different kind of metal is call the "hamon". The blade is heated to a bright yellow in a forging oven and then the blade is diped in water with the sharp edge facing up . If this step is done properly the blade will curve down by itself as the metal that touches the water first will shrink faster than the rest . This is the way Katanas get their so reputable curves. This is the basic of making a Katana. Hope I could help .
Erm its rather funny the way you prhsed your post. YEs a katana is made of metals that have a high amount of iron in them, this metal is actually an alloy of Iron and iron carbide hence it having a high amount of iron in it. This alloy is also more commonly refered to as steel or carbon steel or even high carbon steel. There are several ways of making a katana blade one of which is softer steel welded to a harder steel and folded but there are also soft iron core with a harder steel jacket weleded to it in a variety of didferent ways. And thre reason that a katan curves is not becasue the metal being cooled faster is shrinking Quiet teh opposite. The rapidly cooling portoion of the sword is the hardest part of teh sword and is the outside of the curve. It curves because as it cools the iron and iron carbides change the structure of teh crystaline matrix taht makes up that part of teh sword. That being as it cools more rapidly the crystals form a harder but larger structure while the slower cooling spine will contract becasues the crystals have more time to contract inwards on themselves. So your post is half right. Welcome to MAP
Thank to everyone for all information re:Katana making . If i'm able to get a forging oven and a better knowlege of all matal involving the fabrication of Japanese sword , I will certenly take this hobby to a defferent level. As of right now , i'm making my decorative sword with long "chain saw "bars as it is a very light stell ,will not bent and as a decent level hardenes to be able to sustain a decent sharp edge . I started to do my own Katana because the real sword are very expensive and the affordable sword sold in store are very cheaply made. I would never have the audasity to pretent that i make awesome sword but for me , for right now , it is a enjoyable hobby that keep me out of trouble .
its a forge not a forgeing oven. You only use ovens to bake food. And there are books on the subject of making swords and quite a few dealing with the making of a katana. My adivce is to start out small with knives or maybe axe heads. I know that in Japan those whoa re apretenced to a swordsmith start out making knives. I hope you have fun , I wish I had a forge I used to a aweseom with a hammer.
Sorry from my earlier reply, must have been coming down off the caffiene Heres another nice link from www.jpsword.com Has some interesting information and clear pictures. http://www.jpsword.com/files/swordmaking/sword-making.html Oops Edit: only after posting this, I noticed there was a sword link sticky, I have posted it up there.
