How to fight someone who has the same style of fighting as yours?

Well, thinking about my past years in martial arts from level zero to advanced level, I can say that I manage quite well as I don't let myself to be defeated easily.

 

Fast and a bit brutal. But he is more brutal than me.

 

I see. Since you are a Choy Li Fut and Tai Chi student, can you advise me where can I learn their techniques? Maybe it will be useful for me. U know....the theory of hard vs soft.

 

This thread is brilliant.


What style of martial art do you practice?

 

Shotokan karate, aikijujitsu, self defence and kenjutsu

 

So Yoseikan?

Yoseikan budō - Wikipedia

 

Timing beats speed, and precision beats brutality.

So maybe work on that...

 

Well, not exactly Yoseikan because I don't practice the same katas.

 

How come?

Is your teacher yoseikan trained? Or was it from an offshoot?

 

Have you tried beating him with superior technique, rather than just winging punches?

Also, have you tried a good martial art? I find that can help too.

 

The below is from a blog post I wrote about sparring. Rather than link it here (because linking to external sites is against MAP rules) I'll simply copy and paste the post here. Quoting you simply because you brought it up rather than because there's anything specific I wanted to pick at. Maybe it will open some room for thought as everyone has a different view of what good sparring actually is.

 

Yes

 

I agree to a certain extent but to be honest there is and should be a lot more variety to sparring than just solid power or light power.

Hard sparring definitely has its place, with hard shots around 75-90% of your power, as it prepares you mentally and physically to operate with and against that level of intent. This is especially helpful if you don't fight or haven't fought frequently. It also filters out some tactics and habits which only work under lighter contact and distills what you can actually throw with effect and still retain shape and balance. I think when people only spar light they get used to walking through stuff that would stop them and visa versa. That doesn't mean every shot is going to be at that 'volume', that you are looking to KO your partner or that you are not thinking tactically or not operating with the limitations of your partner's ability or the self imposed constraints such as certain combinations or footwork patterns you are hoping to develop.

The spar you linked in your video (lucky you by the way!) is an extremely light spar that you can benefit from because it would have been fruitless for the guy to throw harder he is so far above your ability level it would have been a bullying.

Hard contact doesn't have to be about ego in my opinion and I don't think it's fair to equate the two no matter how peripherally. The hardest rounds I have are with people better than me and around my level and it's simply fun and it has been and is still, improving me by way of my composure, technique and tactics. Those are the victories I take and other take from me.

Thais spar technically almost all the time due to the sheer volume of their fights and the schedule they train on. Others take a different approach such as many Dutch kickboxing gyms. The best way is likely in the middle but probably not fixed.

For myself I like to treat each round as an individual case, start light and take it up from there based on my partner's comfort and skill. If I know they are ok with contact then I tend to strike harder to the lower body and soften up towards the head. My coach batters me about the gym but he pulls everything that would spark me (wide open head kicks etc) and mostly just stays in my face hitting 70% and making me work. When I spar someone different I might just work touching them with the jab and moving my head or I might have to work simply cutting off the space with footwork if they are a runner.

You get different things from different partners and different approaches. I just don't think it is anywhere near as simple as never spar hard or only spar technically (edit - 'technical sparring'not without technique!)

Ultimately hard sparring does not equal unintelligent sparring imo if done right.

 

Here's a pretty good short on Dutch kickboxing which occasionally touches on the topic at hand

 

I agree with that.

I agree and disagree to an extent. Having had the opportunity to train and spar with top level Thai's showed me that we didn't need to go hard for me to realise something did or did not work against them. The difference for a lot of people in this country is they will never find or have the opportunity to spar with people at that level unless they travel far and wide to do so. So they tend to resort to hitting each other harder to compensate because they think that is what will help them become better.

That was the exact point in showing it. It was good sparring which we both got something out of, without the need to turn it up. It demonstrates that you don't need to hit each other hard to get something out of it. I have done pocket sparring with Singdam also and we did hit each other harder, but it still wasn't hard enough to injure. It was enough to annoy and pester each other while displaying control with our strikes. I've fought on numerous occasions so it's not like I cannot take a hit, simply neither of us needed to because it's training, not a fight.

It doesn't have to be about ego, but let's be realistic. A lot of the time it becomes about ego for a lot of people. I see so much of it in a lot of gyms I have trained/sparred at. It's usually with people who haven't fought. Who have just started training or doing interclubs, and even sometimes you see it in the occasional fighter. Ego is a part of the sport in the west because the reason we compete it is far different compared to in Thailand. It's not a way of life for us. It's a hobby.

Dutch style sparring really isn't sensible (where I currently train at has links with Mike's Gym so I do actually get exposed to this, my first Kickboxing gym also had a similar sparring mentality). Some great fighters have come out of the Netherlands but any time you're literally throwing bombs at each other in sparring like they like to do sometimes (I have literally seen some shots thrown that would induce a coma in some people if they had anything left to comatose) you may as well just have a fight. What's the point in taking heavy shots in the gym? You're brain has a limited shelf life. Don't waste it in the gym. Save it for the ring.

As stated previously, hard sparring isn't about how hard you hit or get hit. It's about working each other, pressuring each other. That's not to say you cannot up the power if you are both comfortable with it, but there's a line as to how hard you should go. It's sparring, not a fight. Working within each others boundaries and turning it up to a point where you push each other out of your respective comfort zones is what you should aim for. You seem to have a good grasp of this already so I won't repeat myself further, it's pointless to. However it's just not worth bombing each other in the gym just because you don't fight week in week out and need to do that to get a feel for what works and what doesn't. If you want to hit people hard just compete with regularity because if there's one thing I have learned from competing it's that it is not about the record but about the experiences you gain from competition. You'll simply never get that in a gym no matter how hard you go at it. So why waste it?

Good opinions though. Leaves further room for thought which ultimately is what learning, and discussion, should be about.

 

I certainly can't argue with the majority of that.

On a personal note, although I don't want to be taking 100% power shots to the cranium I feel like something around the 70% mark for the head and body and about 80-90% for the legs is a good amount of force which gives you a feel for the contact you'll receive without becoming too injurious.

Now, I don't fight and I never expect to fight pro. I am however hoping to do some smokers this year and to dip my toe in some amatuer bouts too. Maybe I'll change my opinion after that. It bears pondering though whether the more exposure to hard contact you recieve the better informed your technical sparring becomes though. I've never met anyone that trains for k1 or Thai that didn't have better composure and tactics in a technical spar than someone who either trained light cont or from none sparring TMA.

Anyway, this a good conversation and certainly provides food for thought! My ideas certainly aren't set in stone so plenty to ponder. I think we seem to agree on most but it's always good to challenge your ideas!

 

I agree with Unreal Combat: your brain has a limited shelf life. Alzheimer’s wouldn’t be a great outcome!

 

Your opinions and attitudes towards sparring and training in general will very likely change so much after having a competitive fight. I know mine did. Everything your coaches tell you, it will all finally begin to make sense as it all starts to fall into place.

I wouldn't even bother with doing interclubs to be honest. I've done many interclubs and in all honesty have had several that were harder than proper fights because of lack of self control from fighters and lack of control from referees (which are usually just coaches from the gym hosting). You may as well just go all in.