Chi is supposed to be cultivated in the abdomen and groin, but you need to translate the chi into jing - a more refined form of energy. Chi is useful for exercise but jing is the stuff that makes your body stronger and strengthens your health. I don't know what kind of martial arts you do, but try to start and finish your practice with a bit of qigong. After all, qigong is standing meditation so you get all the benefits of meditation, plus the chi cultivation. You will find that after exercising you'll feel refreshed and energised. When many people do exercise they stop when they feel exhausted, but in taiji, after doing the forms and qigong, you feel much better and more energetic than when you started exercise! When you start, it's fun to do the stronger qigongs as you feel them more clearly and you get a big headrush out of them, but you should go to a qualified teacher who will show you the best ones for you to do. It can be dangerous to do the more strenuous qigong without any instruction. How do you use it? First of all, you will never be able to knock people over with chi energy - that's a myth. However, using qigong exercises lets you focus your energy in a much better way, and builds your body and coordination up so you get much more power with less effort. Even if you don't get into tai chi, try the qigong and pay close attention to your body when you do - concentrate on your balance and really notice how the weight of your body changes when you move around. The reason we move so slowly when practicing taiji is that every move should be perfect, there is no wasted energy. As you get better you will be able to use the same idea in your fighting and your daily life, even just walking around.
Sometimes when i concentrate on my dan tien to feel my ki i get that feeling you get right before you have to take a big crap. Do you think that could be my ki?
You dont actualy need to position your body in any specific way though it seems to help the mental belief..... now try making something move without touching it using the same theory ... your realy just learning to control yourself.. how fast can you punch with your energy ??? and whats the point of coming into this thread just to poke fun guys... your in the internal ma section on a how to feel chi thread if you dont belive please create your own thread stating that in the general section so people here can continue an informed discussion
Ch'i is such a subjective subject that we traditionally don't speak about it much at our place, people really like to fool themselves over it and it is really annoying to hear some of the stuff that New Age types go on about. The theory is that there is no point seriously discussing it until the student has enough to work with, and until that time we do have a tendency to make disparaging jokes about it, so it is a grand old Chinese martial tradition to jocularly discuss people who obsess about ch'i. If you really, unequivocally want to feel your ch'i, just hold your breath for as long as you can, and when your body finally gives up and forces you to breathe, you are feeling the "power of ch'i!" :love: -HKP
and hk how do you give those who havnt had the same upbringing or traiing the tips they need to begin understanding chi wich while it may be as comonly used as air to you is a strange and exciting things to those new to it ?? can you be of assistance ??
Yes, work! Listen to what your teachers are actually saying and then work, work work, train, train, train; ask for corrections and then train some more. Work on your stances, work on your forms, work on your posture and your attitude. Train your punches, train your kicks, pushes, locks, sweeps and throws. These are all things a traditional kung fu school should expect every time a student is on the training floor. A student doesn't have the leisure to speculate about etherial philosophical issues in a proper martial art school. Once the instructors see that the student can do the work, that they have learned the lesson of how they are expected to learn, then the practical side of the theories of things like "ch'i" can be discussed (and then trained). Regards, -HKP
kinda like moving a cloud or being faster than your shadow ??? considering we are all equal and you chose to post on this thread do you have something to add that can assist people begin their journey when they may not have access to an instructor who can help them .... ???
Umm, no, kinda like if you want to develop and condition your physical framework to handle any appreciable amount of ch'i you are going to have to work hard for long years of dedicated study under the supervision of a qualified instructor to make it possible. There are no shortcuts. For the average person to try to move the energy througt their body that a master can is like trying to put a thousand watts through a hundred watt bulb, they would burn out in very short order. To move beyond simple parlour tricks and actually have enough ch'i to effect positive, undeniable change in your life and in the lives of those around you is a long-term proposition. You may feel yourself to be my equal, and that is fine, you may be, and if you have studied T'ai Chi Ch'uan for the equivalent of 20 years as a disciple of the Wu family of Hong Kong and Shanghai - and taught their T'ai Chi Ch'uan to the public full time for 10 - I may even acknowledge you as such. I'm not saying this to boast, but rather so that you should have some perspective as to why I am saying the things that I am saying here, and why people huffing and puffing for twenty minutes and convincing themselves that they feel their hands tingling doesn't impress me much. When an opponent is stabbing them in the throat and the student can knock the spear out of their hands using ch'i, then I will sit up and say, "Ah! Good kung fu!" That is the level I am on about, having enough to protect yourself and to relieve suffering in others. :Angel: If a person has absolutely no access to a qualified instructor, my advice is that they should study something more accessible and practical like good Chinese Buddhism or Taoism. It is still helpful to have a teacher for those pursuits, but they aren't as dangerous on their own as ch'i kung. The 4 noble truths, the 8 fold path, the uncarved block, the end of desire. Read the Dhammapada, the Tao Te Ching, Chuang Tzu, the I Ching, etc. and stay away from the fantastic or esoteric religious elements. If you can discipline yourself, even a little, you may make the conditions right for a proper instructor to show up for you, even if you have to wait a few lifetimes... This is a good place to start: http://www.indutourismnews.com/buddha.html Even so, I have seen literally hundreds of people reject or ignore the teachings of the best teachers in the world when they have had them directly in front of them, an opportunity any sincere student would dream of squandered because of ignorance and egotism. So, if people can fail to learn so dramatically with a master right in front of them no less, I haven't much hope for the self-taught (or self-graduated). Cheers, -HKP
seriously hk and i meen no offence but i suggest you print your posts on this thread and have yourself a talk with your instructor about being humble... and i said we are all equal ... essential chi ki whatever you want to call it is like an energy that exists in everything and everywhere ..you dont need any particular physical conditioning to use it .. essentialy its part of who you are without all the layers of mess we adhere to ourselves in day to day life ..its about being in controls of yourself simply intend an action an make it occur.... you already use chi .. when your happy and with people you care about they will feel it and you will feel them return it When you are with someone negative you can sometimes feel tired or irratable because there attitude is causeing the energy they are flowing to be negative If you have heard of reiki its pretty much the same thing all energy is just what it is your intentions cause it to have the effect on objects and people that you desire.. in the western world though it can be a difficult path to follow as it dosnt have the same sense of awareness of its pressance and generaly you will need strong self beleif to progress and should you attempt to talk to others many will ridicule you (yes personal experiance here) especialy when you learn the basic principles (essentialy its there and you can do stuff with it) and start playing like in class making your training partner pause while four feet away from them... making objects move with your energy and so forth ........ then you have to think what is making this happen you mind or your body (i started pushing my hand at things) if its just your mind controling your body why do you need to move you body to cause the same result and just take it from there.. Hopefully there are others here who can also descibe it
No offence taken, and no offence meant, but do you honestly think I spent 20 years training with my teachers without covering these issues? What do you think we were doing? Would an old, established school such as theirs let me use their name and reputation to teach the public their family art form without checking me out thoroughly first? To say otherwise shows clearly who has the humility issues, my friend. I haven't once personally insulted you, after all. See www.wustyle.com for more information on who I am talking about. What martial art school do you study with? Basically, it seems you haven't learned yet that to use greater and greater amounts of internal energy (enough to directly affect physical matter) as an adjunct of martial arts there has to be a lot of physical conditioning involved to proceed safely. That is self-evident to anyone with experience of high level internal martial arts. To use ch'i to completely obviate or deliver impact, to move enough energy to heal a serious injury, to be able to move enough energy to see spiritually through the lie of the physical world, one has to be able to handle great gouts of living energy without frying one's circuits in the process. I have seen and experienced all the direct evidence that I need to to settle my mind on this issue. For example, I've met many advanced T'ai Chi Ch'uan practitioners whom I couldn't bother any more than a gnat would with a hundred of my best punches, yet I've never met a reiki "master" who could survive ONE of my punches (at least out of the several dozen I've had talk to me), and I've certainly never met one who could bother me more than a gnat would if they attacked me with everything they had. Therefore, from my point of view, they obviously do not have the understanding of or ability to utilise their own ch'i that I have, and certainly nowhere near that of my teachers. This isn't a lack of humility, it is basic logic backed by empirical observation. The lack of humility in my eyes is demonstrated by reiki-style New Age charlatans with no apparent ability calling themselves "masters" and lecturing me about how wrong my teachers are. For them to try to tell martial artists that they can develop, coordinate and refine their ch'i to levels of kung fu potential displayed by masters of the internal martial arts with no physical conditioning, in contradistinction to 3,000 years of Chinese internal martial research, is very much akin IMO to a mouse lecturing an elephant on how to be big. Such a one seems a cheap huckster trying to sell us snake-oil, and it makes me wonder why they would be on an internal martial arts discussion board trying to convince those of us who know better otherwise. Seriously... Cheers, -HKP
hk ask your instructor what he thinks its all about the mind not the body .. im sure he will feel who i am and i wasnt saying reiki was the way to go just another example of chi being used .. all the energy used is the same as i said it is just peoples intentions that makes it what it is ...im not trying to battle you here ..you are clearly my superior im trying to help give people an understanding what chi is without making it sound all amazing and special ...wich it isnt its just a natural part of life that they affect and cause things to be affected by each and everyday What i was hoping for was that you could offer some advise from your obvious wealth of knowledge that could assist .. not make it more difficult on an issue so simple..
Cheers Tai-gip, Well, I appreciate your attempts to keep this a discussion and not an argument. I'm not trying to make the issue more difficult, but I don't think that we are communicating yet in the same frame of reference. We should keep trying to find one, at least. The mind does indeed have to lead the body, I agree, but the body has to be able to respond to the commands of the mind without any hesitation. That is where the physical training is indispensible. T'ai Chi theory postulates 5 levels of practise: 1. Mechanical Memory. One has to be able to remember how to do the motions of the forms or pushing hands. 2. Coordination. Once the forms can be done from memory, then they have to be refined. Done well, in other words. Most students (heck, most teachers!) never get through this stage. 3. Mind (I pronounced Yi). This is the level I think you are talking about. This is where if the mind can conceive a thing, the body can do it. Deliver a punch in less than a nanosecond? Bam! The body responds to mind instantly, with no body/mind duality in the flowchart. This is what the old timers describe as "kung fu," true attainment, and a student has really accomplished something to work at this level. 4. Breath (Ch'i). The next stage is instead of having the mind lead the body, the ch'i leads the body. This is really something. The expressions of everything the student does become incredibly subtle, and the art has been completely transmitted. This is the level of true "soft style" mastery where things have their own logic which supercedes that of the phenomenal world. The power that can be manifested at this level seems impossible to conceive, and it is. Our descriptors become inadequate to explain the true potential of the human form at this point. 5. Spirit (Shen). This level isn't even discussed. Any discussion inevitably falls short of the mark. Operating exclusively from this level is rarely achieved, and such a one is no longer really even in this world anymore. All 5 levels are always operating simultaneously in everybody, but the question is: which one predominates? To get to level 3 or beyond is a lifetime of study, in the experience of the T'ai Chi family schools. Interestingly, they say that every master starts as a beginner. Even Yang Lu-ch'an had his first class with the Ch'en family. No one can tell if a beginner is a future master or not, so even though the training is INCREDIBLY demanding, we try to treat everyone with dignity due that potential. Cheers again, -HKP
we all there all ready hk we just need to understand that we are... have you ever noticed the best instructors can make there students better than them younger ..its all about giving others the benefit of knowledge ..the true power.. did you ask you teacher about me
Heaven help me, but wow....HK Predestian... (is speechless) I don't know about others in here, but I can feel your intense energy already through your words, voice and presence. One does not need to know who you are to feel you. Though, I gather such umm... i think you would decribe it as "strong intense chi"...are formed due to your internal martial art chi practise as you said here... in such a long time... no wonder you have such proud energy...such strong defensive energy...such grounded and hard "chi" ... (breathes out......) I can't help but feeling like a hard round ball, so tight up and so strong, that if I hit something I would hit it with full HARD force and bounce back twice in that force... Is this just me or is this what you creating your chi in and creating yourself too...? 'coz I feel it from you.. your chest.. you must have a strong chest right?? big and reboast..for your pride and strength and energy is in there....I can feel it. Feeling you holding it in firmly..holding everything you know and taught firming...soo firming that.. that.. that there's no room for flexibility....I'm sure you know what I mean... Oh, also hun...maybe to help your confusion...when a mouse told an elephant how to be big... I'm sure the mouse meant how to be big in mind and heart....that is to open up a bit more...not in energy or body ... not everything is materialistic... I'm very new in here...just join up a few hours ago... I hope not to "lecture you" in how wrong your teachings are...for I don't want you to get all intense and angry and throw energy balls to me ( ) (smiles)... I feel your teachings are good...the ancestors would be proud of you for you put much work in it... But I also hope you understand what I mean. Take care now. And blessings to you and all. (hugs) ~ This Princess.
(Hi ^5 Tai-gip) U go Tai!!! -_^... may the mouse voice his opinion and his own voice! (smiles) (hugs) ~ Princess
