How Silat can help protect us from the Knockout Game?

Discussion in 'Silat' started by pakarilusi, Dec 22, 2013.

  1. pakarilusi

    pakarilusi Valued Member

    While statistically improbable, I think it is a worthwhile exercise to brainstorm tactics, techniques and training methods from Silat that may help avoid, deter or lessen the effects of the Knockout Game, if ever we are in the unfortunate position of being a target.

    I would certainly put awareness of your surroundings and avoidance of being able to be blindsided topmost of things to do. Giving your back to a wall or such might also be good, depending on the area.

    Also, if being alone in an open space is unavoidable, to tuck your chin in while covering your mouth with cupped hands as if blowing into it as most do when its cold. At least with your hands up and your chin tucked in, you are like a boxer at ready, harder to knock out. This is a 'helah' strategy from Silat.

    Anyone else?
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2013
  2. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Silat is a style, Awareness is a concept

    Silat is no more or less useful than anything else and does not emphasize environmental conditioning any more than any other style. The discussion is useful, but limiting it to "Silat" or "BJJ" or any other of the myriad styles is disingenuous and also inaccurate.

    Maybe move this discussion to "General" and it will yield more fruit? Just a thought

    Oh and this chart is more use for teaching awareness than any style

  3. 8limbs38112

    8limbs38112 Valued Member

    The knockout game is a hoax and propaganda. I saw it on a news channel. I don't know all the details but this whole knockout game thing has been blown way out of proportion from what I've heard. The people promoting the knockout game scare are really using this to further their own personal agendas. Like I said, I don't know all the details, but this is what I saw on the news.
  4. pakarilusi

    pakarilusi Valued Member

    Thanks for the chart, very useful.

    As for propaganda, it might be true.

    But you miss my point on my starting this thread...

    Within Silat, at least the styles that I have learned the last 15 years or so, there are specific techniques and tactics to deal with the sucker punch (the main technique here..).

    If you so please, as to not distract, I'll rephrase the question...

    How does your Silat training prepare you to deal with a sucker punch attack?
  5. pakarilusi

    pakarilusi Valued Member

    How does your Silat training prepare you to deal with a sucker punch attack?
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2013
  6. robertmap

    robertmap Valued Member


    I have taught the colour codes for many years - BUT I believe that there are two serious problems with them...

    Most civilians can't do it - their training which is too infrequent and lifestyle which is (thankfully) mainly too safe, make it difficult.

    If you do manage to walk around regularly in state yellow / orange you run the risk of being perceived as jumpy, you may get paranoid, and you may in fact act MORE like a victim!!! That's because a NON-victim is relaxed and confident and yellow / orange (which may tend towards orange / red in the lesser trained) does not send out confidence...

    YMMV - Your Mileage May Vary - However. please exclude yourself from arguing if you are a security, police, military type - my critique is for civilian use of the codes only :)
  7. Hapuka

    Hapuka Te Aho

    The color codes really only work for people who are aware to begin with and have a good sense of intuition. Its scary how many people have neither of, or a lack of both.
  8. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    That's why it's the first thing I teach - without environmental and situational awareness the rest is largely moot
  9. Ero-Sennin

    Ero-Sennin Well-Known Member Supporter

    Edit: Wish I would have seen the small print in the poster Hannibal posted, in the colored boxes. Looks like my reading comprehension was in white.

    I would say the color codes are for the people who have no good sense of intuition more than those who have it. I had to do whole classes focused on the subject at the start of in service time. Never heard of it again as classes on self defense turned into "how to be a hard target" among other things because you always assumed you were in orange and red. I don't think I'm ever in the white anymore, even in my own home.

    I resent Mr. Cooper though, those classes were really boring. :p

    The Marine Corps added condition black, which isn't really relevant to the civilian world unless you walk around in red all the time. From the wiki on Mr. Cooper:

    "The USMC uses condition Black, although it was not originally part of Cooper's Color Code. Condition Black: Catastrophic breakdown of mental and physical performance. Usually over 175 heartbeats per minute, increased heart rate becomes counter productive. May have stopped thinking correctly. This can happen when going from Condition White or Yellow immediately to Condition Red."

    Emphasis on what the colors mean, obviously you need to shift to civilian thinking to make them more realistic:

    White: Unaware and unprepared. If attacked in Condition White, the only thing that may save you is the inadequacy or ineptitude of your attacker. When confronted by something nasty, your reaction will probably be "Oh my God! This can't be happening to me."

    Yellow: Relaxed alert. No specific threat situation. Your mindset is that "today could be the day I may have to defend myself". You are simply aware that the world is a potentially unfriendly place and that you are prepared to defend yourself, if necessary. You use your eyes and ears, and realize that "I may have to shoot today". You don't have to be armed in this state, but if you are armed you should be in Condition Yellow. You should always be in Yellow whenever you are in unfamiliar surroundings or among people you don't know. You can remain in Yellow for long periods, as long as you are able to "Watch your six." (In aviation 12 o'clock refers to the direction in front of the aircraft's nose. Six o'clock is the blind spot behind the pilot.) In Yellow, you are "taking in" surrounding information in a relaxed but alert manner, like a continuous 360 degree radar sweep. As Cooper put it, "I might have to shoot."

    Orange: Specific alert. Something is not quite right and has your attention. Your radar has picked up a specific alert. You shift your primary focus to determine if there is a threat (but you do not drop your six). Your mindset shifts to "I may have to shoot that person today", focusing on the specific target which has caused the escalation in alert status. In Condition Orange, you set a mental trigger: "If that person does "X", I will need to stop them". Your pistol usually remains holstered in this state. Staying in Orange can be a bit of a mental strain, but you can stay in it for as long as you need to. If the threat proves to be nothing, you shift back to Condition Yellow.

    Red: Condition Red is fight. Your mental trigger (established back in Condition Orange) has been tripped. "If 'X' happens I will shoot that person" - 'X' has happened, the fight is on.

    Source info was grabbed rom:
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2013
  10. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    I teach black too - I reframe the parameters, but use the same concept of "total shutdown" civilian terms it is when something either overwhelms us and startles us to the point we cannot function
  11. KaliKuntaw

    KaliKuntaw Valued Member

    If your Silat style is frequent AND heavy into knife work you may have developed attributes that deal with sucker punches well.
  12. pakarilusi

    pakarilusi Valued Member

    Care to elaborate?

  13. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    so i don't get this. if you're just walking around you're supposed to walk with your chin tucked in, mouth covered at all times?

    also how do you know the "knockout" game is a real thing anyway?
  14. KaliKuntaw

    KaliKuntaw Valued Member

    All of you people with your head in the sand....the knock out game has been around a long time. It has however been added to every assault, robbery, bullying case, and whatever else is going on in the streets. When i lived inNYC people often bullied the Jews and white folks. It was an ugly pass time foranimals.
  15. KaliKuntaw

    KaliKuntaw Valued Member

    Elaborate on what?
  16. PointyShinyBurn

    PointyShinyBurn Valued Member

    The only defence to a sucker punch is not to be a sucker.

    If you're so brainwashed as to think "Silat" has some kind of entirely unique insight on that then your already got mugged. By your instructor.
  17. pakarilusi

    pakarilusi Valued Member

    Thanks for that...

    In many forms and names.

    Even here in my country, Malaysia. But under a different name. Not everyone is from the US here, you know.

    Anyway, I thought we could brainstorm and not just give in.

    Certainly awareness comes in many technical forms as well, Silat does have some good pointers on it.

    But if you guys don't want to discuss, that' s fine also... ;)
  18. Purespite

    Purespite Valued Member

    I'm not sure my Silat could help me with the "Knockout Game" (whether it exists or not). Any reference I've seen to it involves a punch either from behind or from an unexpected oblique angle with no warning, no initial contact and no obvious aggressor. I'm not sure any martial art can help you with that.

    Teaching a level of situational awareness will be more likely to make you a harder and less likely target, but that for me is a different question.

    My tuppence worth anyway.
  19. Rand86

    Rand86 likes to butt heads

    Like "blindsiding a sucker"? Regarding the issue of whether it exists or not, is there any compelling argument as to why people should care one way or the other?

    I was under the impression that the forum was predominantly British. Anyway, I live in Poland. Several years ago, while walking home one evening, I had a guy walking the other way take a swing at me completely out of the blue. Fortunately, he was either high as a kite or plastered off his head because his swing connected with the invisible ninja several feet behind me. He then went on his merry way leaving me completely stumped as to what the heck just happened.

    Anyway, this was back when the Internet in Poland was still powered charcoal and hamster wheels, so I seriously doubt the guy knew what "the knockout game" was; I sure as hell didn't. Didn't stop the guy from taking a swing at a random passer-by for the hell of it.

    Brainstorm what? You mention awareness and the "anti-paranoia" crowd will come crawling out of the woodwork.
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2013
  20. robertmap

    robertmap Valued Member

    Great description of the kind of stupid things that drunk / high / mad people can do. In your case it lets you tell a hilariously funny story but (if it had connected) it could have been a sad story.

    The problem is that random violence is ... random ... so no amount of training can actually give you protection - the best it can do is increase your chances of survival.

    In the UK we had the savage murder of Lee Rigby - the initial attack was deliberately running him down with a car (I believe from behind) - how many of us practice defences against being attacked when the weapon is a car.... I know I don't...

    Statistically the chance of that attack is too small to make it worth spending a lot of time (and it would be a lot of time) practicing being hit by a car and evading / rolling / jumping over the top (I couldn't have done that in my youth now, forget it).

    The same with the 'knockout game' attack - how common is it (in fact) and is it worth spending time developing specific strategies to cope with it?

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