How much does strength matter in grappling?

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by Chr9is, Jan 29, 2006.

  1. Chr9is

    Chr9is New Member

    I've taken judo for only about 2 months and i think personally that it helps in resisting some techniques on the ground, however if you get someone skilled enough to get to an opening, youre screwed either way :) .

    What do you guys think?
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2006
  2. Yama Tombo

    Yama Tombo Valued Member

    I agree and also comes in handy once a technique is applied. But it won't help against someone who knows how to move: Creating space, follows movements, and so forth.

    So, I'd say strength matters 25% Techniques 25% experience and sensitivity 35% Other 15%
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2006
  3. Eddie Dean

    Eddie Dean Valued Member

    There isn't a single sporting discipline in which strength doesn't matter.

    I agree with Yama Tombo though that good technique and experience will be as or more important, however, being strong is never going to be a hindrance.
     
  4. TheCount

    TheCount Happiness is a mindset

    Eddie has hit it on the nail I think. Theres nothing saying strength Matters in Japanese Martial arts, but then nothing says it doesn't bear fruit. The stronger you are, ultimately if you trian well the harder you will be able to hit, block, throw and similar. If you are trying to put a lock on someone or trying to take them to the ground, if they are strong and don't want to play you have to rethink your game a bit.
     
  5. sony

    sony Valued Member

    in my opinion especially in newaza strength is very important. but also in standup fighting strength plays an important role (although it can be equalized by superior technique).
     
  6. Slindsay

    Slindsay All violence is necessary

    Undoubtedly it gives you an advantage over the other guy but I find it's not really the match of the same amount of time spent trainning, i.e. if I want to be a good ground fighter then I would be better of grappling three times a week than doing weights three times a week. (Or Ideally strength train three times a week AND train :rolleyes: )

    Probably most usefull when it comes to resisting sumbmissions, most defence against subs that I know require a fiar degree of strength put in to them.
     
  7. Strength matters a lot in any martial art unless one or both practitioners are very skilled at which point correct technique generates a lot more power than just a strong body. The best grappler I know isn't actually that strong or that big, but he knows what he's doing and that enables him to throw and escape some real meatheads.
     
  8. Yohan

    Yohan In the Spirit of Yohan Supporter

    technique > strength
     
  9. Shen Yin

    Shen Yin Sanda/Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    Well you generally need both, to tell the truth.

    There are some martial arts that have claims of needing only technique and very little strength to accomplish their feats. And while this may be true within a controlled environment (within the same school, no doubt), reality shows that this is not a very realistic manner of thinking.

    Yes you DO need strength integrated within your training. But it cannot be pure brute force either; there has to be a balance here. As mentioned before, I'd say the percentage of strength should be lower than vs. technique. But not DRAMATICALLY lower either.
     
  10. hùng.pham

    hùng.pham Valued Member

    How much does strength matter? It matters a lot and, at the same time, not at all.

    No matter what you're sport, there are many variables outside of strength. Technique has been discussed, but your opponent, environment, etc. I'm sure we could brainstorm a huge list of variables to consider.

    If you were in ideal conditions, and everything were equal, except you had more strength, you might have an advantage.

    But over all, I think it does matter -- why else would athletes lift weights, and train to be more powerful? But it's just one part of many that creates an athlete.
     
  11. JayKayD

    JayKayD Meet my friend PAIN!

    From my experience strength is less important on the ground than in any other range. But still, you have the advantage if you are stronger obviously.
     
  12. Timmy Boy

    Timmy Boy Man on a Mission

    A lot of people accuse grappling of being more strength-oriented than striking, but IME the people who say this are people who don't do full contact arts, and as such they just go by what their sensei tells them, whereas if they trained full contact they'd realise how much it matters no matter what you do.
     
  13. Ecks

    Ecks New Member

    strength always matters... but skill dictates how MUCH it matters. If you watch UFC or something, in general, when people of equal grappling skill meet (e.g. Hughes .vs. any grappling oriented fighter in general), the stronger usually wins. It's just that way, because when skill is equivalent, the person who is able to apply more force at the same technical level is obviously gonna win. It's when skill levels differ that it becomes interesting. I'm sorry to make it into such a "scientific approach," as nothing is ever that precise, but in general, strength is more of a deciding factor than the predominant one.
     
  14. Yama Tombo

    Yama Tombo Valued Member

    Not quite, when Skill = Skill & strength of A > B, what about speed? If speed of B > A, then B stands a good chance of overcoming A's strength.
     
  15. Angelus

    Angelus Waiting for summer :D

    most grappling arts technique and skill is more important but some styles - german backhold (or backhand i forget) - relies more on strength than skill.
     
  16. mattnz

    mattnz Die or get rich tryin'!

    But grappling is a slower game than striking (not slow, just slower) Ooh, that's highly flammable :)
     
  17. sony

    sony Valued Member

    i believe it is exactly the other way round.
     
  18. Slindsay

    Slindsay All violence is necessary

    What? Strength is more important in ground than standup and overall being stronger is a disadvantage?
     
  19. sony

    sony Valued Member

    i meant that i think strength is more important on the ground (at least in judo)
     
  20. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    I have to ask, what is the definition of strength? If strength is defined by how much mass someone can lift then I will say this...

    Strength is related to how massive you are. Mass does make a difference in grappling. For instance, it is a lot harder to escape from a 400 pound person sitting on top of you then to get a 100 pound person off of you.

    So MASS is important in grappling.

    If strength is instead a measure say just arm strength. For example, say a measure of how much someone can bicep curl, then that strength is not as important in grappling unless there is a huge difference. If someone is strong enough to bicep curl the majority of my body mass, then I will have almost no chance to get an armbar on them because they can probably power out of it before I can get it really good on them. But if they aren't able to curl my body weight, eventually if my technique is tight and good, I will get the armbar as they will tire out as I work them to the submission.

    It all relates fundamentally back to mass, with strength being a factor but not as much as mass.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2006

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