How much do you guys think strength applies to MA?

I personally believe that strength does have a firm role behind just about every martial art. However, imo, it is not nearly as important as overall fluency of technique.

 

2 much of 1 and you will be very unscientific, 2 much of the other you will be like a mechanical man, find a equal balence where something like strength training does not hinder your speed/performance.

 

I don't think you can develope one with out another.
Technique can't be develope with out some fundamental strength, as to practise the moves
Power can't be developed with out fluid movement.

 

The way I see it...

The way I see it is that with strength alone, you can sometimes overwhelm someone that has a better technique.
But when you'll be facing someone stronger than you, you will have absolutely no chances.

With good technique, you can (keyword: CAN, not WILL) overcome anyone.

So the way I see it; technique is more important, especially if you are already strong.

But training one is not excluding the other. I believe you should train both, as techniques are practiced with strength.

 

Strength is a component of MA, but not the "whole thing." Power is better than just speed or just strength. Power isn't even the "whole thing." There's also the psychological factor to consider, the ability to apply your knowledge during a confusing moment, whether or not you're expecting the conflict...all kinds of things.

Of course, there are instances where one guy overpowers the other guy with strength...mostly because the "other guy" is lacking in multiple elements to defeat the stronger man. But there are also instances, in sport MA for example, where the more skillful man beats up the slugger.

Take boxing for example, the Philadelphia Phantom Tommy Loughran routinely beat up boxers that would simply slug at him with their right hand. Granted, Tommy suffered when he was hit hard, but he wasn't hit often enough to lose or suffer significantly. He was allegedly a very masterful boxer, able to coordinate his body to make the opponent miss, and coordinated in his left fist to continually knock at his opponent's face, like when he won against Max Baer in the early 1930's. Max was, before he fought Tommy, something of a slugging boxer...powerful puncher, but lacking in skill and/or technique.

Don't just concentrate on increasing your power, and don't just concentrate on improving your technique. Take the whole picture into consideration, or else you'll end up with a significant weakness and limit your ability to only specific individuals.

 

its part of it obviously. the other day while we were clinch sparring I was picked up by a 100kg samoan and dumped on my back. pretty damn effective, and not really much technique in it. strength opens more opportunities to hurt people. but "just" being strong is not enough, Bob Sapp proved that in his fight against Ray Sefo

 

Point taken Ikken. I wasn't trying to undermine the clear advantage strength gives.

Just trying to point out that it isn't "the thing" one should try to achieve to beat people up. Pure, perfect practice against actual moving people...is.

 

oh yeah i wasnt arguing against you just putting in my 2 cents... gotta keep the post count up

 

thanks for your opinions guys. so many people on this forum are very insightful, and i value what you guys have to say.

 

Saw a purple belt (30+ years old and 6ft. plus) trying to break boards the other day. He was trying to muscle his way through it with a knife hand. The only thing he accomplished was pain in his hand. The instructor kept trying to explain that it was technique and speed, not power that allows you to break the board.

After about 15 tries he finally followed the instructors guidiance and broke the board. But only after witnessing a 15 year old skinny girl break one just to show him.

Strength is very helpful and will get you through a lot of situations, but there are certain things that technique rules. Board breaking is one of them.

 

Another good example. ^

Let's put it this way...the human body adapts to it's function. So if you often go hard contact against guys...your body and mind will adapt to get better at going hard contact.

If you break boards often...you'll get better at breaking boards.

If you practice light contact point sparring...then you'll get better at light contact point sparring.

There is, however, some transfer from these activities into actual self defense. The light contact point sparring can give you better attack accuracy, for example, but will not prepare you for the adrenaline dump or full contact of an actual conflict. Practicing the hard contact will, but may not bode well with being an accurate attacker.

People, martial artists in particular, spend way too much time trying to find the "best" method to getting better at self defense, especially when they're young, have all the time in the world, and may never get in a real fight for the rest of their lives. The point is just to just enjoy the journey of doing it, not looking for the "perfect end" you only find in cheesy movies and TV. Do as much as you can, vary your practice methods, be open to different ideas...all of it will fit into the big picture eventually.

Take standard athletics for example. Every day it seems like there's a new magic potion or dietary supplement or diet plan that will claim to make people shed pounds and look sexy, without any effort or work put toward that look. Carb counters and other lazy-boned people spend too much time looking for "the way" to do it and not only not get what they are looking for in the first place, but lose time they could've used to embetter themselves.

Do you think world class athletes can do what they do because of magic beans and managing their food pyramid? No, it's because they constantly practice an activity and their body learns to adapt to that function. World class powerlifters don't necessarily look lean and cut, but that's because you don't need to look lean and cut to lift whatever amount of pounds they lift. Appearance isn't always, if ever, indicative to function. Most people think incorrectly like this because of what the media has shown them.

Yet another example. I've been in the Marine Corps for only about half a year now, and almost none of the fellow marines I've encountered are giants with a body builder appearance as movies show. Most of them look like your average joes who work in the civilian sector, but all of them can outrun, outcrunch, outshoot and outhike any ordinary chump. And apparently, the human body doesn't believe you have to look like a movie star to do these things...that has been proven.

Do things correctly, often and with a positive attitude, and your mind and body will adjust accordingly. Don't get caught up in "on the side" BS that most people do.

 

I think strength comes from good technique. Its a matter of physics, really.

-Ryan.

 

Just like speed is an integral part of power, so is the strength of any ma technique.

 

this is what i think about this. if two guys are fighting, both have equal technical skill, both are just as fast as the other, both are just as motivated, and strategically, both are just as smart. if one of these guys is stronger than the other, he's gonna win the fight.

 

If all other factors were equal, then yes.

Same with steroids though. If both men were of equal everything, and one of them took steroids, the steroid ridden one would win.

 

exactly. but of course if the other factors were not equal, it would be a different story.

 

I think wazzabi just made the most obvious statement in his life...Congrats..

 

I think strength will always play an important role in fighting, that's just the way it goes. You can improve the power of your techniques via training, but they would be even harder if you had stronger muscles as well. Many people assume that you can't be both as if it's a game where you have to choose between Xiaoyu and Marduk.

 

wazzabi is Mr. Obvious