How long does it take to get strong again after a long lay off?

Discussion in 'Health and Fitness' started by ronki23, Jun 24, 2012.

  1. Rand86

    Rand86 likes to butt heads

    Dunno how strong he is but he sure throws a mean martelo. :whistle:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWvg-7MapQM"]Mestre Bandeira e CM Hulk Roda Pedro de Toledo.mpg - YouTube[/ame]
     
  2. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    Here's what you need to do.

    Do NOT deviate from this method, it is tried and trusted.

    • Get in the gym 4 days per week, lift heavy and work like a dog.
    • Eat every two hours, 6 meals a day.
    • Remain hydrated.
    • Sleep well.
    • Programme in rest days.
    • Do cardio.

    Finally, keep to a programme for at least 3 months.

    Do not listen to friends unless they look like the dudes in your pictures.
     
  3. Rand86

    Rand86 likes to butt heads

    Where does that leave the fine folk of MAP?
     
  4. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    I'm not his friend.

    I'm the evil trainer shouting in his ear.:evil:
     
  5. Axelator

    Axelator Not called Alex.

    He's not gonna do starting strength properly, I can tell.
     
  6. ronki23

    ronki23 Valued Member

    Oh but I will

    Alternatives that seem viable (no I won't do them but nice to know):

    Wendler: Triumvirate
    Wendler: Bodyweight
    Madcow
    Stronglifts
    Reg Park 5x5

    On a cut the All Pro workout seems tempting-as does the Hypertrophy Specific Routine.

    http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/hst1b.htm
     
  7. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    those aren't alternatives. they're progressions once you stop making progress on SS.

    especially wendlers. wendlers is not for beginners.
     
  8. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    I've laid out the plan for you.

    Rome wasn't built in a day. Get to the gym and start lifting, basic movements only.
    Don't overtrain and forget anyone elses routine. After 3 to 6 months take off your shirt and see the differences.

    You will learn as you go along.

    I think you want the answers before reading the course work.

    The course work in this situation takes place in the gym.

    In your situation there is no softly softly advice. If you want to learn martial arts, find a good school, listen, practice at home and it will come in time.
    With body building my advice is different.

    Lifting, rest and nutrition.
    Fail in any one of these departments and you will not make gains.
    You could lift like a madman, but overtrain or get inadequate nutrition and you will not make gains.
    Train well, but get poor rest and recovery and you will fail.

    No amount of fancy routines will help. Simple and intense is what works.
     
  9. ronki23

    ronki23 Valued Member

    Don't mean to bump this

    But i'm having trouble on the press and squat. On the press (37.5kg) I only managed 3 reps for 2 sets so I did 3 more sets of 1-2 reps. The next workout my press only went up by 1 rep per set so i'm going to have to reset by 5kg.

    My bench was 52.5kg for 4 reps over 3 sets workout before last, I moved up to 55kg the next workout and it was only 2 reps so I did 5 sets of 2. If the next workout doesn't get me 12 reps over 3 sets i'm going to have to reset that too.

    My squat is 67.5kg-up from 65kg with belt (5RM two workouts ago) but it takes me 4 sets to get 12 reps (not getting more than 4 reps). So i've reset to 62.5kg without the belt since i'm not happy with the depth.

    Deadlift at 65kg for 5-doing 67.5kg tomorrow.

    Rippetoes and Kethnaab say only move on from Rippetoes after 2 resets on Squat and 1 on Deadlift. The thing is my personal best last year was 85kg on Squats,87.5 on Deadlift,55kg on Bench,40kg on Overhead Press

    ^ I shouldn't count this as a stall should I? I don't do weights when i'm at Uni as the free time I have goes to martial arts training- my 15 weeks summer holiday goes into weights.

    P.S. Can someone show me the Madcow and Juggernaut programs and 'how to' start off-i'm not finding any proper information online-especially when Madcow says 3-5 sets of 5 but on the same since it also says 1*10??
     
  10. Axelator

    Axelator Not called Alex.

    See I said he wasn't gonna do it, it's a waste of time helping you because you think you know better. But you're very weak in terms of physical strength so maybe you should listen to others.
     
  11. Princess Haru

    Princess Haru Valued Member

    Hmmm hate to say this but at twice your age and another gender I squat 15kg more for 5 reps and without a belt, but I didn't get this by changing my workout every 5 minutes. To give any workout a fair chance you need to stick at it for at least 6 months. With SS if you can't progress with another 2.5 or 5kg just repeat the weight, push for more on the accessory, more Dumbbell work, more bodyweight work, don't forget to take notice of injuries and get enough rest.

    Program it right and you will make progress. It might not be as fast as others, for some lifts you might just not make much at all. I know guys who can bench almost the same as their squat and deadlift, which is very odd. The main thing though is to keep at it.

    I was stuck on the same bench weight for 6 months, look at some of my old threads, yes I was unhappy, no I didn't stop training, I did make changes but ultimately until I addressed the muscle imbalances and got a program to include them in my accessory work I wasn't going to press more.

    The formula is not the same for everyone but SS is a good foundation to work from, just to add you shouldn't be a doormat, look into why something isn't working, but only when that has been the case for a long time.
     
  12. ronki23

    ronki23 Valued Member

    Proof I said I wasn't gonna do it? I'm doing the exercises,I started from blank bar,adding weight every week. Where's me 'not' doing it?
     
  13. ronki23

    ronki23 Valued Member

    I actually wanted to know if you count a 'stall' if it's less than your peak and you've not reached your previous personal best.

    Plus the main reason I bumped was to ask for a link/proper explanation to Juggernaut and Madcow. As I said I don't intend to.
     
  14. Princess Haru

    Princess Haru Valued Member

    Anything you previously lifted doesn't really count. If you keep log books it's interesting to see what you lifted and what exercises and combinations over time worked for you but don't get fixated on previous bests. When I squat 80kg it usually feels heavy, sometimes less, sometimes it feels like 70kg and I think damn I should try for a 110kg 1RM but usually I pick it up and this is when the fear starts and I think, now this is serious. PBs are an ego boost but won't keep you going to the gym. Some days I get too scared to even face it and only routine gets me to the gym to lift more/heavier. I read an interesting article by Henry Rollins (of Black Flag). Now I can't stand him as a person but when he's talking about lifting there is a zen like awareness coming off the page. He knows that metal does not suffer fools gladly.
     
  15. Axelator

    Axelator Not called Alex.

    The fact you've been doing it a week and already stalled means you haven't done it correctly, whether you havent followed the recovery and diet advice properly or taken larger jumps in weight than suggested or started higher, you've not done something right.
     
  16. ronki23

    ronki23 Valued Member

    Proof i've been doing it a week? I've been doing it since the 28th May.
    Anyway, i've obviously been doing it over a week because you're meant to start blank bar on the first workout and keep adding weight in that workout until bar speed slows- I doubt people would add more than 20kg for upper body and 30kg for lower body in the first workout. So it's obvious i've been doing it over a week.
     
  17. Axelator

    Axelator Not called Alex.

    I was exagerating, whether you've been doing it a week or just over a month you wouldnt have stalled this quickly unless you didn't follow the programme, I'm done. Some people just think they know best or wont commit to training, it's your loss no one elses cos you will still be weak in a years time.
     
  18. ronki23

    ronki23 Valued Member

    I'm back-current stats:

    Squat-85kg 5RM ***Personal Best***
    Bench Press- 57.5kg 3RM ***Personal Best ***
    Deadlift- 85kg 6RM- ***Personal Best ***
    Overhead Press 40kg 1RM
    Power Clean 30kg 3RM

    I'm a bit concerned my dips and chins aren't going up-both are assisted but i'm actually doing FEWER dips with 4 plates (assisted) and my chins are stalling. I assume because i've only been getting less than 4 reps on the Bench so i've been doing 5x3 instead of 3x5 to get strong on the Bench (yes even after a reset) that my triceps are fatigued from that?
    My overhead press and bench press are very slow to progress-they only go up every 2-3 sessions.

    My bicep curls and tricep extensions are weak-the extensions I am only doing 7kg per arm for 8-10 reps (on the lhs i'm doing kickbacks as my shoulder hurts on the left from tricep extensions-winged scapula from bad posture may be a factor). As for the bicep curls, my personal best is 12.5kg dumbbells for 6-10 reps but since it's only once a week and Ripp recommends Barbell curls, i've been doing arm blaster barbell curls and they're stuck on 16kg barbell for 4-8 reps (8 reps set 1, 4 set 2 i've tried with 18kg and that was only 6 reps set 1, 2 set 2).
    Are the bicep curls weak from the arm blaster? I can do the same with 2x8kg dumbbells and with better form on the arm blaster-I assume the arm blaster and compound exercises are making my upper arms work harder.

    Mainly concerned over upper body press being slow to progress and accessory exercises being weaker :/

    I've got 3-4 weeks to go before I go back to Uni and do my martial arts; i'd like to get to 100kg on the squats and deadlifts and add at least 10kg on to upper body exercises.

    P.S. my physique isn't changing much-haven't measured but my arms are a little bigger; I finally got to my biggest size/highest strength to date but i'm still very flabby-weight is fluctuating as it goes up one week or down another by 1-2lbs (i'm trying to lose fat so was hoping it'd go down).
    At which point would one become fat AND muscular before thinking of stripping off the fat weight? I assume one would have to lift at least bodyweight on their upper body (bench press,chins and dips) to have larger-than-average arms with the same applying to lower body. I can lift bodyweight on lower body exercises and have big legs but I assume the legs would only look bigger and better if I lost fat and I assume that I should add more size and strength before losing fat??
     
  19. Bigmikey

    Bigmikey Internet Pacifist.

    this thread actually gave me a pain in my head... right behind my left eye...
     
  20. Princess Haru

    Princess Haru Valued Member

    This is not really a training log, as there is little to indicate how much of this you actually do on a particular day. I think you have more in there on upper body and some things will improve as technique improves. For instance my Overhead Press 1RM is 44kg last time I tried and I did 3 at 41kg earlier this week, but I can't bench more than 55kg, at least last time I tried.

    I'd recommend Tricep pushdowns with bands, in 50 rep sets and not getting too obsessed about DB weights for assistance work, it will come but only if you train consistently for a period of time, a month isn't long
     

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