How long does it take to get strong again after a long lay off?

Discussion in 'Health and Fitness' started by ronki23, Jun 24, 2012.

  1. Axelator

    Axelator Not called Alex.

    Have you read Starting Strength 2nd edition? If not I would really reccomend doing that while continuing to workout.
     
  2. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    You know before the internet existed weight lifting was so much easier, you simply went to a gym found the strongest guys there watched what they did and copied, sometimes people complicate the most basic of things
    Just an observation
     
  3. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    STFU and lift?
    i believe that is the phrase often used.

    Ronki - also i stalled early on in SS due to bad sleeping patterns and bad diet - sort that crap out.

    it's as simple as deciding your goals, sticking to a program and seeing it through.
     
  4. ronki23

    ronki23 Valued Member

    Also-I was asking about alternatives because I don't know what alternatives there are/when to move onto higher reps for the showier muscles-not that I will move on anytime soon-just want to know what people move on to
     
  5. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    forget about showier muscles... get stronger. showier muscles are for muppets. get stronger and faster. end of.
     
  6. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    as i keep saying it depends on your goals:
    - if you want to get strong train like a power lifter.
    - if you want to get fast train like an olympic lifter or sprinter.
    - if you want to get big or lean train like a bodybuilder.
    - if you want to get more coordinated and able to use your bodyweight, train like a gymnast.

    what are your short term and long term goals.
     
  7. Ero-Sennin

    Ero-Sennin Well-Known Member Supporter

    Ronki23 -

    I'm going to throw this out there, maybe it will help you and maybe it won't. Instead of worrying about what type of routine you're doing currently, or what you think you should or should not be doing try to focus on gaining a strong mind-muscle connection.

    For me, a strong mind-muscle connection has helped me to develop an understanding of my own body and what it's capable of, as well as to get some pretty unexpected results in areas I wasn't expecting much from. Here's an article explaining it more in depth: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/herve1.htm.

    The reason why I'm suggesting it is because it is something that will take weeks to start to really get a feel for, will help you really put your mind on technique and targeting the muscles your trying to work for, and when you start getting a feel for it will help you really start focusing on every single rep instead of just trying to get through a set. It may even lead you to push a few extra reps, or add a few pounds just to get a better feel and better understand your body. It will also help to take your focus away from "what's the best program" to "how is this really working for me, and what can I adjust." It's not going to come right away though, it's sort of like being able to "see" when sparring, meaning you can see, anticipate, and adjust to your opponent in a sparring match before they even act which takes a lot of practice, dedication, and trial and error before it comes.

    It's also something I don't think a lot of people generally practice, but something I see is common in the people who are pushing big weight, are fast or can really push themselves for distance. It's one of those subtle, but drastically important things. I think if you start doing that (and you'll know when you're doing it, because it's one of those "it just clicks" sort of things) you'll be able to start really learning about your body (which is extremely important in lifting and getting results) and you'll start developing a better feel for lifting through the experience you'll get with the program you're on.

    I know I can do a weightlifting routine I know will have no benefit for me because it's too easy, but am focusing on that mind muscle connection and I still take something from it. It's worth developing and shifting your focus to, and it can also help prevent injuries. All it requires you to do is start focusing on your reps and your muscles while you're working out with what you're already doing, nothing crazy.

    Don't know if that will help you or not, or if you can even grasp that without having a coach next to you helping you with it. Just though it may have been something good to throw out there to help you stay focused with what you're already doing if you shifted your focus a bit.
     
  8. Ero-Sennin

    Ero-Sennin Well-Known Member Supporter

    Personally, I tend to agree with this statement. I'm also aware though that developing showy muscles tends to make you a more intimidating person (not necessarily in a combat sport mindset, but in normal everyday life) as well as boosting an individuals confidence.

    With that said, I think having a certain focus on showy muscles for somebody doing martial arts in a self-defense mindset, or if it gives a combat athlete just a tiny boost of confidence that it is worth focusing on.

    As I said first, and it is developed through the knowledge that showy muscles over performance doesn't transfer into a better fighter through my own experience in combat sports, that I am VERY much for performance over show. But the benefits of show also can't be overlooked or talked down about so strongly because it can have significant benefits for certain individuals.
     
  9. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    hmm interesting... I tend not to look at things that way much. I usually tend to see those with show muscles (gym muscle etc.) as the type that will gas fast... in general that means big biceps and big chest... there's almost a stereotypical gym-rat physique out there that I see come into the training gym from time to time and it's usually been a good indication of who's going to be gassing in short order. So... with that... I'm rarely intimidated by it. A great many people buy into this stereotype. Who knows maybe that cuts both ways... interesting as of late since I'm spending far more time rolling and competing in BJJ - the physiques are entirely different from boxing and muay thai. Guys in general have a lot more muscles mass. Some of them are just solid as. Today was 6am of rolling with purples and above - all of who outweigh me easily. As you can imagine it was all about just trying to survive. Tapping like a tap dancer. So perhaps my first observation doesn't always hold true. The black belt I train under Rodrigo Caporal.... is just chiseled out of stone... and yet he's rarely on the weights. Though you'd never believe it from looking at the physique. Unreal. Genetic jackpot. Go figure. Lucky sod. :p

    While fighting and training Muay Thai or boxing I rarely lifted weights. But now I find the strength demands in BJJ are pretty noticeable. So I now life on a regular basis. I can now pack on a bit more mass than I ever could (being now 41 as opposed to 25 and a classic ectomorph body type).... anywho...

    food for thought (for me mostly) :p
     
  10. ronki23

    ronki23 Valued Member

    Thanks guys,

    My aim is to build a muscular body with low bodyfat percentage AND be good athletic wise- the current crop of physiques do differ but they all are near 200lbs,have fairly low bodyfat and are fairly strong-not Hulk strong but still strong. These are the kind of physique I am aiming for:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    If I had the genetics or 'arsenal' available to me i'd want to look like this

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  11. ronki23

    ronki23 Valued Member

    Thanks guys,

    My aim is to build a muscular body with low bodyfat percentage AND be good athletic wise- the current crop of physiques do differ but they all are near 200lbs,have fairly low bodyfat and are fairly strong-not Hulk strong but still strong. These are the kind of physique I am aiming for:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    If I had the genetics or 'arsenal' available to me i'd want to look like this

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Ero-Sennin

    Ero-Sennin Well-Known Member Supporter

    OH . . . MY . . . . . GOD

    Where is my friggen lotion.
     
  13. Axelator

    Axelator Not called Alex.

    Just go and do what starting strength tells you to do then come back in a year, you're not going to be looking like any of those guys for years.
     
  14. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    these are four different goals:
    1. be muscuarly bigger
    2. have a low bodyfat percentage
    3. get athletically/generally strong
    4. be around 200lbs

    focus on one goal at time, one year at a time.
    get strong first, then get big, then get heavy, then loose bodyfat.

    choose one goal at a stick and stick to it for a couple cycles!
     
  15. ronki23

    ronki23 Valued Member

    Wouldn't 1 and 3 or getting strong and big, or getting big and heavy overlap goal wise-ESPECIALLY if I do a strength program? I'm also trying to 'clean bulk'-i'm over 20% bodyfat-surely I don't need to eat as excessively as Rip suggests since my body can pull on fat stores for energy.
    ^ I do however, eat my g protein per lb bodyweight

    I don't mind looking like this if I get bigger and stronger and keep the bodyfat

    [​IMG]
     
  16. Rand86

    Rand86 likes to butt heads

    Ah yes, the famed "fighter's physique." :D
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2012
  17. ronki23

    ronki23 Valued Member

    Fedor'd look amazing if he stripped off that bodyfat. Same as Brock Lesnar (there's no way I can get that big without juice)

    I was also told (most importantly) that working out and adding muscle helps you take pain in fighting-as I stated earlier-doing 4-5 sets of 6-12 didn't work for me too well (I added 0.5-1.5" to bodyparts over 20 weeks, added around 1-2lbs a week to weight and 2 reps to my lifts [although that'd only mean an increase of 1 weight every six weeks]) but doing sets of 5 did

    i'm not too sure how it works but some reports say adding muscle will help take pain-apparently it'll help me get over getting hit in the nose or ribs sparring (I never did).

    In Wrestling we either did 2-5 minutes of wrestling or (in that time) do 2-5 minutes of exercise-normally X number of push ups (a lot of the time I was told to do 50 push and get back into wrestling OR do 100 in the time stated). At the end of the workout we were told to do 5-10 sets of 10-5 chins (as long as we did 50). Not all the time but we also did squats with partner. Our coach didn't believe in dumbbell/barbell training-bodyweight and plates only (I don't dispute his methods since he's been in the Romanian Olympic Freestyle Team and went to Sydney 2000 and he also says strength training helps)

    Anyway, I found limited information on strength training helping pain resistance-especially external blunt force trauma but i'll give it a shot and if worst comes to worse I can learn to dish it out

    http://www.chadhowsefitness.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/fedor2kx4.jpg

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1756063/

    www.cebp.nl/vault_public/filesystem/?ID=2926
     
  18. ronki23

    ronki23 Valued Member

    here's a study I forgot to put on:

    https://secure.ausport.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0011/195896/AM1993science.pdf

    there's no definate correlation but several people (MMA and Wrestling) have told me that if I can't take pain, build myself some strength and weight train to take the pain.

    Oh yeah-did 5x3 Overhead Presses today with 37.5kg when last session I did 3x4 with 35kg; the Presses were a little easier when I put the bar on the Squat Rack as opposed to cleaning it up (even last year I cleaned it up first).
    My Squat is also now 65kg for 3x5 as opposed to 65kg for 3x3-improvement. Will add on to make it 67.5kg this Friday and attempt last year's personal best Bench of 55kg for 5 (did 52.5kg for 4 Monday).
    5 weeks in and I almost hit last year's upper body max (at the end of the 15 weeks last year my Bench was 55kg for 5 and Press 42.5 for 2 or 3). Will take 2-3 more weeks to Squat/Deadlift bodyweight (last year's max) but hopefully by the end of this I can do 100kg on them
     
  19. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    so your going to be quiet, listen to our advice and stick to the program then?
     
  20. ronki23

    ronki23 Valued Member

    As I stated, I never said I was going to change-just want to keep my options open- there may be more than one way to skin a cat and i've found a knife works best; I just need to know if there are other types of knives I can use ;)
     

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