How long does it take to get strong again after a long lay off?

Restarted working out a month ago as it's summer and have free time- from September to March I was doing Judo,started Jiu Jitsu alongside in November and from December started Wrestling. 3 weeks into Starting Strength/3x5 program and my bench and overhead press are almost back to where they were/improving much more rapidly than last year-is it because I did a lot of dips/push ups during wrestling (in wrestling coach makes us do 5 x 10/ 10x 5 dips or chins [I can't do chins so I do dips] after the workout and 50-200 push ups in a session (either we wrestle or do push ups for X minutes or alternate between the two)???

My leg strength is not as strong as it was- last year I could Squat and Deadlift 185lbs (85kg),my Bench was only 120lbs (55kg) and Shoulder Press 88lbs (40kg) after 14 weeks of training; three weeks in this year my Bench is already 110lbs (50kg) and Shoulder Press 77lbs (35kg) but my Squat is only 135lbs (62.5kg) and Deadlift 120lbs (55kg) but i'm adding 5lbs per session for Squats and 10lbs per session Deadlifts (if it's only 1x a week I add 10lbs, if it's 2x a week I add 10lbs the first session and 5 the next).

I'm still VERY flabby though (basically my 'progress' pics) and last year although I was much stronger,I was still flabby. I'm eating cleaner this year round and am aiming to lift 100kg/220lbs on Squat and Deadlift though-will it work better this time around?

I'm tired of being in bad shape and at least the past three years i've seen sense and started doing sets of 5/strength programs and moved gyms to one with a Squat Rack.

Just wanted to know what to expect physique-wise after 10 more weeks and eating better than last year (basically I have a lot of flab on my lower abs and puffy nipples/chest fat- when I was 14/15 I was 186lbs plus and over 20% bodyfat and lost over 40 pounds in around 4-5 months;now and last year i'm at the same weight and bodyfat % I was when fat but i'm 2-3" taller, 22 years old and much stronger but still not at the strength of a fit young male). The problem with last year is I stopped martial arts training around 8 weeks into the program (no classes) and went on holiday after the program-when I finally got back to martial arts at University, the lack of conditioning in Judo and not wrestling until December meant I lost a lot of strength. Even the year before that my push ups I did in kickboxing were less than my peak (although this is endurance rather than max strength) and I had trouble lifting up the mats in kickboxing and judo. Most importantly, is it much harder to get back leg strength?

 

no one can tell you what progress you are going to make, thats down to your genetics, work ethic and determination.

with training you've gotta enjoy the journey, if you obsess about the destination then you'll never ever be satisfied.

 

:/ What's the average progress? I am indeed adding weight to the bar weekly (per session if you think of squats) and i've already almost hit my max last year for upper body (2 weeks at most) but lower body is a while away (2-4 weeks).

I know people say that but i've never had a six pack and even at my lightest (130-140lbs around 15% bodyfat) I still had pec and belly fat!

 

Looking at your other posts, it could be that your Squat is affected partly by this shoulder pain you mentioned and it is the most technical lift so usually takes longest to make progress, particularly if you are not being coached (like me). Most guys at the gym can bench bodyweight or more with no tuition and only a little practice so this is not really surprising. Shoulder/upper back strength would also affect a big deadlift

 

Hey ronki, I don't really know if there is an 'average' we can talk to.

I know that every time I stop training due to injury, long holidays or sheer laziness that it's my self-belief, willpower and mental focus that takes a battering. Putting on my trainers to go for a run after fracturing my heel, training after a month holiday, starting to lift again after 10 weeks off from a shoulder injury and broken ribs...god it was hard to get 'in the zone'. The only thing that kept me going was rebuilding good exercise habits, not killing myself at the starting line (easier said than done) as well as drawing on where I'd been and regaining belief that I could get there again (or surpass that plateau as it sounds in your case) by being consistent, focusing and also tailoring your workouts to yourself and not stressing about standards/the 'average'..

You're young and you sound like you're second guessing yourself into a box. Get a PT, talk to some guys you train with who inspire you, get out of the rut. Plus I'm not sure what you consider a 'cleaner diet'. Care to elaborate? Also where's the HIIT in your schedule?

 

To the OP, here's some interesting information that comes from my handy dandy ACE personal trainer texts.

The first two weeks of ANY sort of exercise you will notice very little physical change to your body. You'll get stronger or faster or have more endurance, but this is because your nervous system is adapting to to the stimulus you are putting it through with working out.

After about two weeks of CONSISTENT training, physiological changes begin to happen. You said you're in week three, keep it up and stay consistent. You're not going to go from flab to fab in a week past getting your nervous system in check for whatever you're doing. If you're also going up 5lbs to 10lbs every week enjoy that mess. It doesn't stay that way when you get to a certain point : P.

Also, the best way to put on muscle (especially for beginners) is to squat like nothing else matter. Not 5x5 all the time either. Do some sets of 20 that make you panic while you're doing the set and make you want to die, do pyramids, do anything that just makes it suck. Better yet, rather then listening to me in this thread look up "20 rep squat program," "benefits of squatting," "good squat routines to build muscle" . . . . anything of that nature and get educated on it because I guarantee you any goal wanting, squats will be a valuable asset to you.

 

The thing is I don't feel any shoulder pain unless I specifically do that one arm dumbbell extension-from another website (actually I think it was bodybuilding.com) I was told to scrap the extensions if they hurt and do one arm cable pushdowns; considering the right side doesn't hurt, perhaps kickbacks for the left? When I do dips it only hurts if i'm doing lots of reps/low reps but medium (4+) don't hurt.

EDIT: Week 5 begins and my Squat is already stalling at 135lbs (65kg) when my best last year was 185lbs (85kg); did 3-4 reps for Squats for 3 sets but next session i'm going to stay at the same weight. My bench is already at 115lbs (52.5kg) for 4 reps and my best ever bench last year after 15 weeks was 120lbs (55kg) for 5.

 

You can always work around that injury in the shoulder... but at some point it's going to rear it's ugly head when you least need it to. So plan on getting looked at by a competent sports physio who understands the demands you're placing on the shoulder. Anything less is very shortsighted and will come back to haunt you. If it's injured and not functioning properly it will change your work outs... (eg. now you're always trying to find work arounds because it's compromised) and you body will be over compensating somewhere else... which eventually leads to imbalance and injury. Fact.

Once the shoulder is "healed" and you get the full range of motion out of it... then you need to work on strengthening it (funny how many people forget this part)... my guess is you have no rotator cuff pre-hab anywhere in your program. No worries... no one ever does.. until they blow a rotator cuff and have to pay a physio big bucks to tell them to do their internal and external rotations with very low weight (1-2lbs) or a light resistance elastic band for between 15-20 reps each side... each motion. Every workout should have at least a few sets of arms out in scarecrow position - with hands doing pronation (palms down) and supination (palms up) to warm up the shoulders. You should also be looking at doing your Cubans... a nice lift for dumbells is lateral delt raises with DB's to Cubans. Another polisher you can add is shoulder openers using a light resistance band... the focus is on the back of the shoulders (posterior deltoids - the largest part of you deltoid muscle mass) and one of spots mostly way out of balance to the anterior deltoids in 99% of guys. Start out very very light and work your up. Get your shoulders to the level where they should be!

Pre-hab or eventually you'll have to rehab!

 

sometimes it helps to raise the volume if you're stalling, instead of 3x5 at a higher weight, try 4x5 or 5x5.

if you're only getting 3-4 reps out on 3 sets then try 5x3 and next session try 3x5 on the same weight. it's the same volume and you'll still be making progress.


also listen to slip - sort that shoulder out!
light arnie presses are another good one for sorting out your shoulder.

 

Alternatives to Starting Strength

Thanks Zaad

Out of curiosity, what alternatives are there to Starting Strength and when can one switch around? From what I know there are several but I don't know when to switch/what to choose as an alternative or next step:

Stronglifts (good but not as good as Rippetoes I hear)

Hypertrophy Specific Routine

Bill Starr-this one is confusing-can someone find the original for me-there are many variations and I don't know what 1*10 stands for when it asks for 5x5;it also says ramp up the weight to your 5RM but it doesn't say how much by/what to start with!

All Pro

Any others? When does one do All Pro and SHOULD they? I don't like the look of All Pro simply because the reps are too high (I used to do programs at 8-12 reps and my strength was increasing 2 reps a session but my overall poundages didn't go up nearly as much as Rippetoes and people didn't notice the size I added/they said it was negligent

Arnold's Beginner Workouts

I read that the beginner workout used in Arnold's Encyclopedia were what he suggested to his 'juicing' friends/when preparing for a contest but I was told doing the workouts once a week/doing it twice a week and eating lots will help-especially for beginners

Apparently Arnold actually did this type of workout in the offseason/prescribed it to beginners-he says 3x a week; I assume 2x a week would also work?

A member of T-Nation recommended I create my own workout

Finally my Uncle said routine 1,5 and 6 work well in the following; he's new to this so why do programs like the above All Pro and Golden 6 and random internet programs work for everyone but it took me several years to find I respond to sets of 5 and most personal trainer programs suck for me?:

www.gain-weight-muscle-fast.com/bodybuilding-routines.html

 

many people respond to heavy sets of 5.

stick to rippetoe.
if you're squatting say 65kg for 3x5 but can only get 3x3 for 67.5, then add two more sets of 3 so you're doing 5x3 at 67.5 and then try 67.5 3x5 next squat session.

if you're still not able to make 3x5 at 67.5, drop back to 65 for 5x5 at the session after and try 67.5 3x5 for the session after that. sometimes you might just have a bum day.

again the routine you do depends on your goals. but it's a safe bet to stick to rippetoes for a while.

 

What do you think of the above? I couldn't find the Starr routine/understand what there was but Stronglifts looks appealing.

All Pro,HST and both of Arnold's beginner workouts work but I don't know why they are so crap when I try them (only tried Golden 6); never tried any of the workouts my Uncle sent me but i'm not a fan of workouts over 8 reps simply because i've added more size and strength with sets of 5.

People say hypertrophy routines will add size better-especially after a strength foundation but All Pro and HST have been suggested to beginners-do they work for beginners if the beginners don't build strength first.

Had I not used the internet i'd be stuck with personal training and creaing workouts. Actually,why ARE personal trainers in shape/have big muscles but their bodybuilding programs so rubbish?

 

many personal trainers think what worked for them will work for everyone else.
a PT cert is easy to get. their are a few decent PTs.

stick to SS. and eat MORE.
get fat, get strong.

you haven't been on SS long enough to warrant changing program.

 

Not going to change but looking to keep options open

Apparently this is quite a good program-although you need 9 months to do it to reap results-training 3x a week seems to be the reason only two heavy sets out of 5 are used. I'm not going to do it in lieu of starting strength-just looking at all the options.

Has anyone made good progress on a 3-5 x 8-12 rep progress without starting this/a similar program? Just wondering if i've wasted my time doing hypertrophy programs/personal programs and the programs written for beginners with such high reps. With such programs, I normally got stronger by 1-2 reps per session,added 0.5-2lbs a week to weight and added an inch or two on bodyparts but people kept saying I made little progress.

 

i dont know. i dont bodybuild.
maybe ask on t-nation or bodybuilding.com for some advice specialised into that sport.

 

As Zaad stated, you have to stick with what you're doing. He's also right about personal trainers. I've seen only a few good ones out there myself. Very rarely do you find a personal trainer that isn't just "fit" and can either push some serious weight, or cover some serious distance in a short amount of time. It also very much depends on the kind of gym you're going to, the type of clients they have, and how serious they actually are about training.

A lot of people start a program, don't get the results they want right away, and then try something new. It takes time, effort and discipline to reach your goals and sometimes we don't always reach what we want. Regardless, you'll always have learned something personal following through with the routine for the amount of time you're supposed to and more often then not you can find what works for you and adjust your next program to get more of the results you want. It's a big learning process learning to work out the correct way, and you have to adjust the way YOUR body needs it. If you're starting out it takes time, there is no way to get around that.

 

stick with it man.
dont consider alternatives cos you'll find a way to cop out

 

also rippetoe says back squats should start with around 80 pounds (40kg) so after 5 weeks you should have made progress much better than 65kg.
you should be squatting a solid 70kg. so im guessing diet has a role to play with also a number of goals like getting big, getting lean and getting strong in one go.

 

Interestingly Rippetoe also suggests the Leg Press can be used to build up to a proper 1x bodyweight squat http://vimeo.com/22735485, though anyone who can squat more than their bodyweight for more than 1 rep should get off the Leg Press and get squatting

 

I couldn't find that anywhere-these are the quotes I found when it comes to starting off: