Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by klaasb, Mar 10, 2011.
Knew this already. Although I do not accredit the so-called "Indian dude"
the theory is more that he likely brought conditioning techniques rather than an entire MA.
im quite sure the chinese were good fighters before an indian man visited them
I personally don't think there was an origin for martial arts, fighting is what humans do, and I think that practically every culture had some method of fighting, including unarmed methods.
It's not a theory given much credence by historians past or present. It's not even known if he actually brought/developed the I Chin Ching. Stories could be allegorical.
He shows up in China about 1500 years ago.Bit of a latecomer as regards martial training in China. And why would a breathing exercise birth MAs anyhoo? He's not even mentioned in relation to MAs until the 1800s.How come? Not unlike his MA "brother" Chang,San-feng.
Until the modern era most MAs were about weaponry usage. The idea that Pankration,an unarmed system, would birth systems and practices of sword,mace,bow,spear,etc doesn't make sense. Anyway,everyone knows MAs came from Egypt.
Please elaborate on how martial arts came from Egypt.
I personally think martial arts did not come from a specific location. Every culture has used weapons and developed specific ways to use them.
Egypt was a joke -(note emoticons)- because some people do make that claim.
The theory is he brought yoga-like exercises.
And, yes, the Chinese, like other countries,already had fighting arts long before
People dont realise Egypt was a fighting force as well.
However, where did martial arts originate is like discussing what came first, the chicken or the egg.
The origin of martial arts is man-
..... looking for ways to defeat another
If the word 'martial arts' points primarily to militaristic use, martial arts probably originated in modern day Iran.
But since then, about 10,000 years ago, the human body hasn't changed dramatically. We still have two legs, two arms, one head. So the way we move and fight unarmed is still as limited as back them.
But we have a brain to develop weapons so that we do not have to use our bodies the same for modern militaristic use
Hi I'm new. interesting stuff, I need 10 posts to post on ninjutsu
Why does the olympic style taekwondo spar with there hands down? It would seem to me that good defense would involve the hands also. I see a lot of guys on youtube get knocked out because they were sparring with their hands down[/QUOTE]
Because WTF is a sport based art and not a defensive art. for example pouching to the face/ head is not allowed in WTF. If you like to have the defensive portion in taekwondo then you need to look at the original art which is ITF
He is talking about the man from India that brought the 12 movements of fighting to China that the Chinese martial Arts expanded out of.
I don't know if you're realised, but this thread has not been active since 2012. A lot of posters on this thread are no longer active.
Olympic level athletes of any kind will attempt to maximise their effectiveness in their chosen sport. If they are doing something you don't understand it's likely they understand their sport better than you do rather than them doing something "wrong" (although sports people aren't infallible and are often prone to superstition of course). Their movement, training, drills, etc will be geared towards performing in a very specific sphere.
In olympic TKD that hands down look is to block body kicks (the quickest and easiest scoring method) and to aid in balance, dynamic movement and kick transitions.
They don't have to protect the head from punches so they don't have a high guard
If an olympic tkd fighter gets KO'd it's probably not because they had their hands down but because the other person played the game better than them.
Personally I'd look even further back than that and look at the real original arts of Japanese shotokan karate and especially the modern reinterpreting of even older okinawan karate and bunkai.
fixed that for you
I think that the good Dr is aware of that and actually made a bit of a hash of requoting the original
I'd recommend this book: A Brief History of the Martial Arts: East Asian Fighting Styles, from Kung Fu to Ninjutsu (Brief Histories) by Jonathan Clements. It covers the Shaolin myths and also touches on the origins of Korean arts. The author cuts through a lot of pseudo-history, myth and nonsense to look at proper historical sources. There are a lot of people out there in the martial art world who quite genuinely believe a lot of nonsense to be true.
thanks Pretty in Pink but people still read and I haven't been on in a long time so I'm supper late in answering.
(1) Olympic TDK is a sport version of IFF it has nothing to do with they the Olympic athletes knowing the art better than me or not.
(2) all the people who learn that art are not Olympic athletes.
(3) their arms being down has nothing to do with blocking high kicks as one scores from waist up not down.
(4) we not need to go further back to other art forms as I was answering a question that was asked about TDK and why they don't block head kicks!!!!
So next time please read what I'm responding too
I feel that English is probably not your first language but you could do with reading too.
I think you mean ITF? Not IFF? Anyway...I did not say the olympic style athletes know the "art" better than you (no idea how you'd even quantify such a thing). They know the "sport" of WT taekwondo sparring better than you (where you can quantify that by looking at competition and/or coaching success). The art and the sport are different.
You were the one asking about "olympic style taekwondo". But no matter. Whether olympic level or not they are playing the same game and as such will seek to maximise their results so my points still stand whatever the level.
No idea what that even means or what the point is.
You asked why the arms are down in "olympic style taekwondo sparring". I gave you the answers. Lower arms prevent body kicks to some degree (a very quick and common method of scoring), aid in balance, dynamic movement and in particular kick transitions. Kicks are often "blocked" or thwarted by good distance management, footwork, angles and counter attacks rather than straight "blocking". This is at the expense of having a higher guard that, on occasion, means head kicks land a bit easier. It's a trade off. A compromise. Guard the head (which won't be targeted by punches anyway) but still lose the match because the opponent is using their arms more dynamically to land multiple kicks to your now exposed hogu, move around, etc.
You don't win olympic style taekwondo by guarding your head. You win by landing more kicks to the target areas of you opponent within the rules. If that can be achieved by sticking one finger up your nose and the other in your back pocket that is what olympic style athletes would do, even though we may recognise, in a more inclusive or wider combative sense, that is not the best options.
Having got back into ITF taekwondo recently I spar with a conventional high guard (having one hand down would be a more common ITF guard) and get picked off with front leg mid side kicks all the time. I accept that because a higher guard suits me and my goals beyond ITF style sparring. The same reason I spar more front on that many ITF practitioners. It's not optimal for semi-contact ITF sparring to stand front on but I make that choice for reason beyond that.
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