How Important is Cardiovascular fitness?

Discussion in 'Health and Fitness' started by Andy Murray, May 9, 2002.

  1. Andy Murray

    Andy Murray Sadly passed away. Rest In Peace.

    If you can't finish a fight or deal with a situation within say sixty seconds, would it be fair to say that your Style lacks economy?

    A lot of people get taught 'one hit' mentality. If you hit someone properly the first time they will go down etc.

    So what role does Physical fitness have to play?

    After all, we all want to be able to defend ourselves when we are older, and less fit. Does it not make sense to train ways of defence which don't require a 'finely tuned engine'?

  2. pesilat

    pesilat Active Member


    But in a fight there are all sorts of chemicals dumped into the system (adrenaline, endorphins, etc). Among other things, these jack up the cardiopulmonary processes. On top of this, each time you feel pain (even if the endorphins and such prevent you from realizing it) your system gets turned up another notch.

    Because of all of this, a 10 second fight can impact your cardiopulmonary system the same way that running 100 yards flat out will affect it.

    If you're not efficient with your motions, that'll just make it that much worse.

    And after the fight it's a good idea to be able to immediately vacate the area (to avoid other attackers, get to the hospital if you got injured, etc.)

    Also, if you can avoid the fight by running ... run :)

    All of this means that a certain level of cardio fitness is a good idea in regards to self-defense.

    Having said all that, I should probably point out that it was an objective POV ... my cardio fitness, while not deplorable, is far from great ... I would say that, overall, my cardio fitness is better than the average joe-schmo ... but a pretty shy of the average athlete.

  3. Andrew Green

    Andrew Green Member

    This I find most often comes from rather out of shape instructors who have gotten lazy and neglected their own training.

    Most people train for fitness reasons over self-defence, I would say fitness and health ought to be at the top of the list of priorities.

    Fine maybe a fight shouldn't last more then a minute, but you should also live past 60.

    But also the fit guys move faster, hit harder, have better reflexes, etc.
  4. LilBunnyRabbit

    LilBunnyRabbit Old One

    A fight is decided in the first three seconds, it may go on longer but usually its decided in just that short time. Being generally fit also contributes to your strength, speed and agility. It also means you're unlikely to have heart failure when someone throws a punch at you, and be able to run away fast.
  5. Melanie

    Melanie Bend the rules somewhat.. Supporter

    I was told by my Sensei that I had to use technique against a mans strength. He said many male karateka begin with the strength but never practise the technique and one day when they no longer have the same strength they will not be able to defend themselves effectively. If I had to defend myself against anyone who has been in this thread so far, I wouldn't stand a chance unless I practised technique! Not ready yet fellas...please don't attack me :(
  6. Saz

    Saz Nerd Admin

    Cardiovascular fitness is pretty important I think, if only for running like hell at the first sign of a fight. We do a lot of cardio training for knockdown, because the fights usually last 6 minutes or so and its full contact, so it requires a good deal of fitness as well as strength. We also do circuits at the start of the class.

    Sensei does teach us the 'one hit' mentality (especially to the girls), but emphasises that its very rarely enough to win a fight, and its only really useful to cause enough pain to the attacker for us to get away safely.

    I agree with CKDstudent that a fight is decided in the first few seconds. I think whoever gets the first hard strike in has the best chance of beating the opponent
  7. Andy Murray

    Andy Murray Sadly passed away. Rest In Peace.

    Andrew Green.........

    I would agree that that is why the majority of people are in MA, though I disagree that this should be a priority within the arts. If you want to get fit, join a Gym, swim or run!

    Andrew again..........

    That,s true, but.....Mike almost puts across what I'm trying to say!

    A young fit guy with speed and power, is like an assault rifle in the hands of a blind man, if he has neither technique nor control.

    In the heat of the moment, with your engine running high revs in a high gear, adrenalin pumping and senses it not more important to have the control to reserve strikes and minimise extraneous movements, than to be superfit?

    I remember very well inviting a mate along to an MA class. He said the fitness side of things was of no concern to him, as he was a marathon runner. As I'm sure you all know, this requires a very different form of fitness.

    Remember that, you may have good CV fitness now, but this may not always be the case. What will you rely on then?

    Last edited: May 11, 2002
  8. Andrew Green

    Andrew Green Member

    No, many people become bored of these things, martial arts has a little more variety. There seems to be a fairly good agreement that martial arts where done primarily for health, at least in Okinawa.

    LOL, thats funny, "You'rer too fast and powerful to be a good fighter! eat more fast food and spend more time lieing on the couch if you want to be any good!"

    Hate to say it but young fit guys can have excellent control. So can fit old guys.

    How many out of shape ring fighters do you see?

    You may no how to react, but you need to do it fast enough that you don't get hit first. If you do get hit having a little muscle protection will save you a lot of pain.

    Not getting into fights?

    Seriously though, A 70 year old shouldn't be expected to keep up with a 20 year old, so what? The 70 year old can still be in great shape, and will live longer if he is then the one that put on weight and stopped training himself.
  9. Andy Murray

    Andy Murray Sadly passed away. Rest In Peace.

    Andrew Green........

    No one is disputing that Andrew. In fact I would go on to say that, Self Defence is one of the best ways of looking after your health!

    Andrew Green.........

    No one is saying that Andrew!

    Andrew Green..........

    Ring Fighting is a sport, but then I'm not promoting the idea that people should be out of shape! I have seen many superbly fit ring athletes burn themselves out halfway through a match, and lose to a less fit but more experienced opponent. One who was in control!!!

    Andrew Green...........

    You don't see many overweight 70 year olds, but then again being overweight is not necessarily indicative of physical condition!

    There are too many variables here to try and choose a side as such. I find the subject interesting though, as time is linear, and waits for no man!

    Last edited: May 12, 2002
  10. LilBunnyRabbit

    LilBunnyRabbit Old One

    You don't see many overweight seventy year olds because most who are either can't leave the house without help, or are dead.

    You also don't see very many fast seventy year olds, although saying that Grandmaster Choi celebrated his sixtieth this year and can still kick three time as powerfully as a sixteen stone instructor.
  11. pesilat

    pesilat Active Member

    Yup. Although, Willem de Thouars and Dan Inosanto (mid-60's) are both still amazingly fast.

    What you *do* see with the "old masters" though, is incredible timing. With good timing and economy/efficiency of motion, they don't have to be all that fast :)

  12. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

    Speaking from a personal standpoint - I have a heart condition. So I take my CV fitness VERY seriously!
  13. Andy Murray

    Andy Murray Sadly passed away. Rest In Peace.


    I'm glad you brought that up Yoda, though I hope it causes you no trouble. One of the reasons I posted the thread, is that, as a result of a recent illness, I am now chronically asthmatic.

    I am unsure, in the long term, what respiratory capacity I am likely to recover, but the whole experience led me to wondering if we place too much emphasis on washboard abs etc, at the expense of training mental discipline and principles of technique!

    As Melanie said........

    In a violent confrontation, I'd like to be the eye of the storm, the calm center. Expending other peoples energy, rather than my own!


    (p.s. Yes I am a bloody Idealist OK)
  14. pesilat

    pesilat Active Member

    But isn't that part of training in martial arts :) It's all about striving for the ideal.

  15. LilBunnyRabbit

    LilBunnyRabbit Old One

    To be honest I'm not particularly fit, I'm better than average certainly simply because I've been training for so long. However on fitness alone I can't match most of the 'fanatics' in class, and yet I am (trying to to be immodest) better than them simply through having trained so long in the same art. Technique, timing and experience has a lot more to do with it than sheer fitness and strength.
  16. Andy Murray

    Andy Murray Sadly passed away. Rest In Peace.

    I concur!
  17. Thomas Vince

    Thomas Vince New Member

    About 59 seconds to long! Especially since I can hit hard and devastatingly effective with at least four strikes in one second to the throat, groin and any available joint. Mpegs to follow soon!!

    Have been all my life! Chi Kung will help Andy and make you physically stronger.

    Okay guys, the ancients gave us the answers, we just have to find them and use them. Your physical health is acquired by your martial art training, a martial artists qualities inlude good health, physical strength , mental strength. It is not a preconception it is reality.

    People who train in the MA's should go to the gym, if they want a tight body, and that is their primary goal. Good health and physical fitness is a by product of a dedicated MA that has internalized thier art.If they want to be able to defend themselves and thier loved ones they will find health and fitness within their art.

    The main reason for people joining the martial arts is to work through their own internal fears,no matter how long, or how good you become, there will always be a fear of something. Let's not forget that a "concern" or the "prevention" of one thing or another is based upon our mental picture of the future or the pastand our feelings of fear that things will happen. Yet the best martial artists will still succumb to health problems and old age.

    Andy Murray I like your idea of TIME, and I feel that we have to blend and flow with time. Exceptance becomes the greater strength of the advanced martial artist as well as self honesty.
  18. mmafiter

    mmafiter New Member

    I think anaerobic fitness is more important in a confrontation than aerobic fitness. A fight is generally a series if quick bursts of energy and doesn't last very long. Especially went your body is full of fear, adrenaline, etc.

    I'd love to finish a fight in under 1 minute, but it's not something I count on. I think you need to be prepared to do what it takes, for as long as it takes.

    Same with the one hit mentality............what if you miss?:eek:
  19. LilBunnyRabbit

    LilBunnyRabbit Old One

    If you miss you hit them again. And if they're still standing again, and so on.
  20. mmafiter

    mmafiter New Member

    Then your not hitting him once, correct?

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