how far do you push the pain?

Discussion in 'MMA' started by jamie1976, May 7, 2007.

  1. jamie1976

    jamie1976 Valued Member

    how long will you let a submission go on for? how much will you let it hurt? do any of you fight it to the last sec almost bone breaking point or give in when you know you cant get out of the hold/submission? personally i like to fight it till my bone is about to snap a lil bit dangerous but it hels build resistance. your veiws and experiance's please!! :woo:

  2. Sever

    Sever Valued Member

    In training, I tap when I feel that it's on and I know I'm not getting out of it. Doing otherwise is stupid; there's nothing to be gained by getting injured in training
  3. callsignfuzzy

    callsignfuzzy Is not a number!

    Similar to Sever, if I think I've got a chance to escape I'll hold out 'til, really, I can feel the bones grinding together pretty well. I've seen some matches where guys suffered a dislocation or broken bone and condinued fighting, so it might not really be a "pain" issue, just a "smart guy wants to continue to train without any unnecessary injuries" issue.
  4. Apotheosis

    Apotheosis Valued Member

    I try to keep aware of my position, if I am in "danger" and I seemingly cannot escape then I will tap.
  5. Yohan

    Yohan In the Spirit of Yohan Supporter

    I always tap at the first sign of pressure on my joints. I don't want to risk permanent injury just because I didn't tap.
  6. TheMightyMcClaw

    TheMightyMcClaw Dashing Space Pirate

    I tap as soon as I know the lock is on. With armbars, sometimes before the arm is even completely straightened. Personally, I'd rather keep my joints in tact so I can train more than risk injury by training 'harder'.
    With chokes, I tend to wait a bit longer, since there aren't the potential consequences of trying to fight out of a firmly applied lock.
  7. Oversoul

    Oversoul Valued Member

    I once verbally submitted to an armbar I thought was fully locked on, was misheard, and actually managed to escape right as I was about to tap out. That was training though, and a one-time fluke. I think I've generally developed a pretty good sense of when I need to give up and when I don't.
  8. stump

    stump Supersub

    I don't do a huge amount of rolling anymore so when I do it nowadays I'll err on the side of caution - if there isn't an obvious escape open to me I'll tap straigh away.

    In the past when I was more used to it (rolling a few times a week rather than once / twice a month) I'd hold out until absolutely necessary. Never had a bad injury from it but appreciate the fact that the closer you go to the line the more chance you have of inadvertantly crossing it.

    Not tapping immediately can be useful for generating a 'never say die' attitude but veering into the realm of bloody stupid is....well...bloody stupid :)

    It also depends on how well you know your training partner and how likely they are to crank it on :)
  9. jamie1976

    jamie1976 Valued Member

    thanx for the posts so far!!

    thanx for the postes so far a few different opinions but all good and relivent personally i hold it as much as possible as i know all my trainning partners will only ease it on and not just slam a lock/submission/choke on so this way i feel i build up a little resistance each trainning session i think if i did train with someone new or did a out of club comp or even an in club comp that got a little heated then i'd tap alot sooner than i do now.please keep all the experiances and opinions coming in as there all very much appriciated!! :woo:

    jamie :woo:
  10. TKDjoe

    TKDjoe Valued Member

    The more you roll the more experienced you get at knowing when you can't get out. We have a saying, "TAP OR SNAP". I will tap as soon as I know I can't get out. I always leave my ego at the door, being able to continue training is more important than whether I WIN or not.
  11. Slindsay

    Slindsay All violence is necessary

    Refusing to tap is retarded and leads to a false sense of security, I've had brown belts mention before people who refuse to tap out to a submission and so they simply switch to another technique rather than risk injuring the armbaree. The armbaree then thinks they can tough out/defend the sub when in reality they where caught in it.

    Chokes are a slightly different matter, if it's in class Randori where we are going for a good 10-15 minutes at a time I tap early-ish to save gas (Though I've only been caught a couple of times), in line ups where we fight one at a time then I tend to hold on and try to fight clean because it's fairly safe and I have time to recharge after the fight.
  12. Doublejab

    Doublejab formally Snoop

    I used to try to be a bit macho about not tapping untill I absolutely had to. Then I got caught in an armbar and wouldn't submit, he pushed his hips up more (as you're meant to) and suddenly it was agony, I think my arm came close to being badly damaged. I had to sit out the rest of the class, couldn't train for a week and my arm hurt for about three months!

    If it was a competition I would probably do the same thing and try to get out of it, but when rolling in training I'll tap as soon as I feel it come on. Better to tap a bit early than a bit late!
  13. KenpoDavid

    KenpoDavid Working Title

    You are not going to build up resistance to a dislocated elbow or shoulder or a broken arm or a shattered ankle etc.

    But, let's say that you can, and you have. So why then tap early as you said? your logic is broken. If you have built up resistance to it (whcihis impossible) then you shold be able to hold out longer. So even you know that the resistance thing is silly, eh? :)

    However I do think that you can build a tolerance for pain and discomfort. In a submission hold the pain is the indicator that "you are about to suffer damage to your body" and so you tap out before the damage occurrs. but I can put you in other holds that are not threatening imminent damage but do hurt like heck. one day I was rolling witha guy who was aoubt 280lbs and he had his forearm acroiss my face for what seemed like a MONTH (probably 2 minutes) it hurt BAD and I looked funny for a few days... I tapped IMMEDIATELY when he FIANLLY slid it down to my throat. Geez Scott what took you so long????

    In my world, "tap" means "don't break my arm". it does NOT mean "that really hurts". however I often roll with guys who I know will tap just from pain even if there is no potential breakage. Just this last weekend I was rolling with a guy and had him in a pretty solid side control, and was grinding my elbow into a certain spot that hurts like a maternal fornicator, and he tapped. My intention as to get him to move so that I could get him into a (real) submission. So I asked him "Steve, when did you become such a WUSS!"
  14. axelb

    axelb Master of Office Chair Fu

    For me it depends on who you are rolling with.

    In a comp you would probably be more cautious as you would expect the other guy to slam it on. Once you know you can't get out and the pain is there I would tap.

    In class I would leave it a longer as you trust your partners and will probably know who will put it on harder/faster.
    I remember tapping out early when I was younger especially when training against the more experienced judoka, then to be looked at and told 'I have barely put the choke on yet?'

    then once I got into it more I would leave it till the very last minute, untill I left it a little too late and past out in a choke - I think that taught me where my limit was though so I could leave closer to later whilst I tried to manouver out.
  15. EternalRage

    EternalRage Valued Member

    Yeah depends who I'm rolling with too.

    Some guys I know will work with me, especially the instructors and assistant instructors, so I know they won't crank it like all hell when they get a sub. I know who the crazies are in my club so when they get something I tend not to fight it for too long.

    One time I misjudged a crazy and he nearly cracked my arm in half. We both heard the shearing of soft tissue and stopped and were like "HOLY SH**"
  16. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    As you train more with others and especially with the same people, you know how much to 'crank' beofre you hear a dirty wet snap or feel a tap. Hopefully it'll be the latter.

    I dont want to get injured and i'm sure know one else does. Its I tap when I know its on and I cant get out of it.
    Though with chokes I do let it kept on for a little longer, as I'm still barely concious to try and work a hand in or something.
    However saying that I did pass out straight away once on a triangle and woke up like 2 seconds later.
  17. jamie1976

    jamie1976 Valued Member

    i wudnt say so much a resistance as i put it but more like i now know my limits a lil better so i dont tap as soon as it hurts a little bit but wait and see if i can escape even though it is hurting a little bit if you get me? and doing this has ment my arms and legs are being bent, pulled, twisted etc ALOT so just like stretching your legs daily to help with kick hight and ease this has ment my arms and legs feel as if they now bend more when in reality the pain proberly happens a little bit later than at the star of my trainning. :woo:

    jamie :woo:
  18. KenpoDavid

    KenpoDavid Working Title

    that makes a lot more sense :)
  19. 1bad65

    1bad65 Valued Member

    I ended up with a tear in one of my back muscles(albeit a slight one) because I kept trying to slam a bigger guy to get out a triangle. I had to take off 2 months to heal. I was an idiot and now I tap when I know I'm caught.
  20. spirez

    spirez Valued Member

    Lol,tendons and ligaments do not 'stretch' like muscles!

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