Why? Is it so amazing a man double the size of another has a harder stomp than the shrimp does? Thanks for taking the time to reply to my post.
Don't forget the concentration of force on a given surface area and the displacement of energy over time or do I have my scientific words mixed up? Let's all :google:
Not true. Maintained contact with the bag is what moves it. Penetration is more important. Watch the thais kicking the bag and you wont see them moving much. What you will see is the bag try to fold around their leg. Very different mechanic.
you know an intersting thing about who hits hardest.....is that the question should go....who hits hardest and is a great fighter.......name hard hitting boxers and the names come up tyson, foreman, duran, hearns.......but they all had one other thing in common they were great fighters.....now you ask me who hit hardest ...well talk to the guys who fought, or hang at the gyms....and the name ERRNIE SHAVERS comes up errie hit harder than anyone yet he was not that great of a fighter so his name dosent come up......just a thought on a side not once held mitts for pete sprate.....hit so hard my forearms were sore and spine the next day.......couldnt imagine what these top guys are like
He clearly gets his power from the hydraulic pistons he's had implanted into his hip flexors. Everyone knows that right?
wow.... nice. Now THAT is a name associated with hard hitters. Well done.. I'm not feeling quite so old any more. Shaver's is the man who KO'd Ken Norton in the first round... Norton was the fighter who broke Ali's jaw when he caught him flush with a punch while he had his mouth open to breath. To this day I stay on my guys about exhaling through their nose when they punch.
Ah, sort of*. A bag is bit like a pendulum (as studied at school) or a swing, it has a resonant frequency (however you push it, it will tend to drift & settle into a set swing speed & period). Motion/strikes (to a stationary bag) that try to drive the bag at this speed will induce more movement in the bag, different frequency components will be lost to friction and other motions That speed is inevitably much slower than the speed you strike at. Therefore someone who hits more slowly will (all other things being equal) move the bag more. This is a messy system so there are lots of things that will affect the answer other than straight speed - driving through your strike for instance - but that's the basics in terms of speed. I say this because my mental image of a the "fat guy struggling to lift his leg above waist height" is someone struggling to get good limb speed. I think the previous post on KE did an excellent job of explaining the physics involved otherwise. Spoiler PS. For anyone convinced of "bag responds differently at different speeds" you can also think of it a bit like cornflour mix (move slowly and it is like liquid, move it quickly and it is a viscoelastic substance). The different components of the bag all respond differently at different "speeds" PPS. The pendulum analysis is a bit inaccurate in the fine details because a pendulum is meant to be a point mass on a thin string. A punchbag is a diffuse mass on a chain that can support oscillations, the system can be thought of as a compound pendulum that pivots at 1. the ceiling and 2. where the chain joins the bag, finally the bag can be deformed and bend under impact which further complicates everything. But nevertheless, modelling as a simple pendulum pulls out the correct behaviour on a general scale (physics ftw!). To anyone who is reading this and is in school - this is why we use simple models in science/maths classes . *The one that moves the bag more might be more likely to make me fall over - I'll have to think about it.
So you're switching back to your original stance that small men can still be the toughest? For that matter, smaller people have no penetration. They deal a great amount of surface damage given the speed and hardness of their knuckles/shin, but lack of weight makes for less energy going into the actual target. Like throwing a small rock at someone's head, you can crack their skull but you'll never knock them out. Throw a bigger stone, it might not break any bones if it's going too slow, but the energy will transfer right through and they'll be out cold. Two different things. I have a heavy bag, and when I punch it it bends in half. So now all Thai people are bad assed powerhouses?
I think what I said may have been less clear... though not that it justified this ridiculous response... I was saying bag movement does not automatically equal power because yes, you can push a bag and it moves far but that does not meaning pushing is massive power. I said this because a front kick moves the bag more than a round kick, but the front kick is less powerful. Though two people of different sizes both doing a round kick, bag movement means everything. Even superheavyweights hit the bag too fast with a round kick for you to say the slower speed is simply pushing the bag. That's a ridiculous comeback. The speed difference between light/middleweights and heavyweights is not large enough to be important here. When people say heavyweights are slower, I think mostly that is true about general movement speed, moving from one strike unto the next, but the speed of a single heavyweight strike at the point of impact is not so different from a lighter weights. Yet the larger amount of mass makes for more penetrating and devestating internal damage.
@ Grandmaster Betty, So you think it's pretty cool you've been to Thailand and watched some hotshots train? Those gyms you mentioned have some top fighters, that must mean you're also pretty hot too, right? Must give you a massive insight into the style and an edge that we all lack, right?
Read my last line in the post. "My mental image of a fat guy struggling to lift his leg", I was responding to your prior post that mentioned a fat guy moving the bag like hulk despite flexibility issues. My post explains why, slow and struggling will swing a bag surprisingly well compared proper technique. I did not intend to give the impression that I thought extra weight above 80kgs will inherently cause human beings to strike more slowly. Of course skilled people all hit the bag at similar speeds and of course someone with 20kgs of extra muscle (with equal technique, flexibility etc...) will hit harder than their lightweight equivalent. That is definitely true and I agree with it.
I'm not claiming that at all. For all my exposure to thai's I've not actually been there yet. Ive never claimed to. I don't claim to know everything there is to know about thai boxing, but I do know that I have some level of experience and skill and I have conviction. It's just very obvious from your views and opinions that you don't actually know what you're talking about. You seem to lack basic understanding of points that are made, even arguing points nobody actually made. The thai's don't cut weight as often as you seem to think, they fight at their natural weight most of them. They just avoid training that's likely to bulk them up. not the same thing. Have you ever tried to cut weight for a same day weigh in? I don't think so or you wouldn't make that claim. Muay Thai IS all about power. This might be a case of my opinion versus yours, but 99.9% of people who know anything about thai boxing will agree with me, not you. That's not to say that technique means nothing, but with technique comes power. As for the stone analogy, you really don't understand the basic physics behind it do you? How speed and mass contribute to power? How a knockout actually occurs? What happens when it does? If I throw a stone at your head hard enough, It can knock you out. The thais however knock each other out all the time with their apparently puny and helpless little bodies. And since you like to make so many big claims, back them up. Why don't you upload a video of you doing some bagwork then? Everyone on this forum who's earned some measure of respect from some quarter has, at some point, uploaded videos for people to see. Whilst it may not be the reason they put the videos up, it does lend credence to previous and future posts.... or debunks them completely. So, since you can apparently kick far harder than Yod can, why don't you upload us a nice video of yourself kicking the bag and doing some padwork please? If all you get is constructive criticism, you've won a watch. I doubt you'll take any criticism well however.
Nak Muay dehydrate drastically to make weight,a lot of them will go to hospital and go on a saline drip to rehydrate,but I guess thats a different thread
Thais? Actual thais? That'd surprise me and many of the people I train with spend a lot of time in thailand. Some of them even live there. But then I've never been there myself so I can't argue if you've seen it with your own eyes. If you were talking about western fighters I would agree with you. Western fighters tend to weigh in the day before or many hours before the fight and lose a lot of weight in water, giving themselves plenty of time to rehydrate.
You know for the lot of you in this thread bickering back and forth about who kicks harder instead turning it into a ****ing contest amongst yourselves... get your sorry asses over the MAP workout thread and join in. It's up to 40 pages of goodness right now and chock full of inspiration and constructive criticism. There are plenty of MAP members who have posted up vids of them training in various forms.... We've yet to see either you post in that thread.... It's entirely up to you but less bluster and more sweat can't be a bad thing.
FWIW - anyone in the fight game will cut weight when they need to. There is no rule that says that Thai's must fight at the weight they walk around at. Every camp is different and every fighter and coach is different still. Some guys fight so often they never have to cut much because they are always at the weight to get a fight. Other guys have coaches and managers who are working all the angles and have their fighters going up and down like yo-yo's. Kings Cup is always chock full of Thai's and everyone else who is cutting weight to fight. Some of the boys come in and strip damn near naked to make weight on the famous Lumpini scale for matches at Lumpini. Rajardermnern is the same as are the smaller stadiums. I think in general you're going to find less Thai's cutting heavily than westerners... that's simply down to the availability of fights at the average weight of most Thai's compared to westerners in Thailand.
Yeah bro I know for sure Thai nationals do that(Lumpinee boxers) I couldnt tell you what percentage of course but it is a done thing
I haven't because they're good exercises but I already knoe a lot of good exercises which are mostly already placed on that thread. And it aint gonna happen any time in the forseable future cos I'm coaching in germany at the moment and don't have the opportunity to train myself.
It might be slightly going away from Yods kick but to knock someone out, to my knowledge, it takes a rapid shock to the brain so if you catch the chin and make the head spin rapidly it can cause a knock out. That doesnt take amazing power ,it takes timing and anticipation and accuracy and general ring craft to set it up or take the oppurtunity. Also the amount of venom or violence in a person at the moment of danger ( like in a fight) can give someone an extra oomph . As far as I know and have been taught every strike has to be a moment where everything comes together physicaly so its your whole body exploding and you explode in your head too and realy mean it and put venom into it. Not meaning it or not putting everything in makes the difference. The top Thais put EVERYTHING in. Abnd they are fit enough to do it. But saying all that,its not to the point where you go off balance if you miss or or cant repeat strikes. Its everything but in a dynamic, explosive way.
It does not even need to be muscle. Look at Butterbean - you just need weight. Of course, muscle is prefferencial for other reasons.
