How does one improve????

This is an important point. One that has been made before.

Maybe this is why so many people don't "get it", they are unable to "see it".

 

But isn't BBT supposed to be a distillation of techniques and concepts from the individual ryuha? Furthermore since BBT is defined by Hatsumi and he hands out the teaching licenses in BBT, shouldn't it at least be considered a viable art by itself?

Because if jugodans who have trained in Japan for years are still judged to be 'complete crap', doesn't that kind of disqualify BBT as an art?.

 

Whom here ( bujinkan only) has a rank in any of the ryuha? I'll even accept a 'certificate of attendance'
Skh patrons need not apply see^

 

The problem is that there seem to be no good examples in the art. Where are we supposed to find "it" as "it" pertains to Ninjutsu? "It" seems to be unavailable on video, and travelling to Japan apparently will only allow a tiny number of magical people to glimpse "it". According to what I have read on these forums if you are not born ethnic Japanese, it seems that odds are pretty firmly against you ever grasping "it".

In the arts I am training in there is no nebulous concept of "it", there doesn't need to be because effectiveness rules. I know who is more skilled than me, because I have fought/sparred/rolled against them and there is no possibility of faking your skill level in that situation.

Across all martial arts, one of the artists I respect most is the boxer Pernell "Sweet Pea" Whitaker (although I am a grappler at heart). Now I appreciate his brilliant footwork and movement as well as the sense of fun he seems to bring to the sweet science, but none of those factors show how effective he was. If we would like to know if Pernell Whitaker was effective we do not look at his videos, we look at his record. Now I understand that Ninjutsu is not a competitive art, and in fact the philosophy of competitiveness may run counter to how modern Ninjutsu is being sold so perhaps the answer to testing effectiveness that works for boxing will not work for Ninjutsu. However, Ninjutsu needs to find it's own solution to the dilemma of making sure that the people you are learning from have usable skills.

If Ninjutsu practitioners cannot find a yardstick more concrete than some nebulous idea of "it" then they are condemning their art to increasing irrelevancy in a world where effectiveness and efficiency rule. Also, without a way to measure the skill of instructors (the rank system apparently has failed utterly) then practitioners will continue to be defrauded by unrealistic and ineffective instruction.

 

I don't think it needs to do any of the things you think.. I think you need Ninjutsu to change in order for you to understand it.

I know perfectly well who is good and who is bad (on a scale, strengths and weaknesses etc) just from training with them, second to which would be watching a video of them.

 

Please keep in mind that this viewpoint is not the shared opinion of others who are in different organizations than the Bujinkan. It is my opinion that it is quite possible to find quality instruction outside of Japan within the Jinenkan and Genbukan. Perhaps it is because in most cases our instructors are not so removed from the source, so to speak. I actually believe there are quality Bujinkan instructors outside of Japan as well, but it might take more searching because of sheer numbers.

 

Could you post up a good video on the good video thread so I can get some sort of idea of what Ninjutsu is meant to look like. Your opinion seems to be highly valued on MAP, and you give the impression of having a good understanding of the art. I was hoping to be more enlightened by the videos Please Reality posted (as he seems to give the impression of being some sort of authority), however he came up with a video of Ninjas climbing trees, Hatsumi doing some movie fighting, and Doron Navon showing the best way to attack someone who is sleeping upright.

 

I'm hardly an expert considered to many who post here. I'd like to try to share something with you in video format, but the problem would lie in what you expect to see in a good Ninjutsu video.

Could you let me know your criteria?

 

It's not "their" art.

 

I don't know if this applies to ninjutsu as much as it does to the martial arts I've practiced, but I've always gotten enormous amounts of mileage from "Listen to your coach you idiot."

 

I am not very knowledgeable on weapons, I would be more able to understand the unarmed stuff. I don't expect to see a fight or free-sparring or rolling (I would love to see it, but as far as I am aware it doesn't exist). What I don't want to see is solo kata, or completely unresisting stuff. Ideally I would like to see two people interacting in a way that shows that the skills would be transferable into a live situation.

I would like to see effective techniques practiced against an opponent who is resisting. I don't care if it is grappling or striking. I guess the best I can hope for is to view some two-man drills that have at least a moderate level of resistance, and that show understanding that your opponent will not just be standing helplessly. I assume that at some point some liveness creeps into Ninjutsu training?

To sum up what I would like to see:
1). Unarmed.
2). Effective techniques.
3). Effective execution.

An example of a basic two man drill from another art would be the check-and-return Muay Thai drill.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aw2WAUXq6eY"]muay thai drill #2 - YouTube[/ame]

The drill is reasonably low level. It is not amazing, and it doesn't prove effectiveness, but it does at least hint at the underlying effectiveness of the art. I would much rather see sparring but I understand that this is too much to hope for. I just want to see basics done well, I have no interest in shishin ken or other oddities.

 

It does. In Japan too.

 

Apologies, I should have been more precise. Much like the chupacabra, videos of Bujinkan sparring do not seem to exist although many have claimed to have seen it.

 

I don't know I have a video like that, though I have seen and done drills and sparring.

For me, I can tell if someone will be effective without the sparring or second man, I can see how a person moves if they are using proper mechanics and principles. If you are a grappler I would imagine you could do this too?

Another tricky point to possibly address is 'are we all talking about the same thing'

Because some people here are talking about Ryu Ha and some are talking about BBT and some are interlacing them.

My position is that I am the walking embodiment of my exposure to the training of the art. So if it fails or succeeds that is somewhat down to me and my interpretation of it. A perfect theoretical technique must be executed to perfection in order to be proper. There are many examples of people who are not executing properly but that doesn't mean the Art (if we can agree what that is too) is flawed, it means the way they are trained is flawed.

My view for training is that it is about learning to refine and control your body movement as a basic, transferring power, maintaining structure when moving through different body shapes etc, and then once you know how you are supposed to actually move you start plugging a technique into that.

And ultimately, if you are moving correctly at the core level (they call the Kihon and Kiso) then plugging in a technique will be valid and effective.

 

Do you always respond like this when faced with new information that you hadn't expected to receive?

 

I haven't seen sparring up to a solid/high level of intensity. But I have worked on trying to get it there - its not something that is built in naturally so people play with it.

Not saying that it is built out either, just not so common.

 

Only when the claims have as much supporting evidence as yours.

 

And my first-hand experience isn't good enough for you because...?

 

This interests me, because I have often been given the impression that the nature of BBT makes a very bad fit for sparring. How well do you find it works in with your practice?

 

First hand experience isn't always reliable.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Miracle_of_the_Sun