How do I break balance in properly in Randori?

Discussion in 'Judo' started by ronki23, Feb 6, 2012.

  1. ronki23

    ronki23 Valued Member

    Got one more new problem!

    I've got a novice but he's big and strong and fast for his size (actually this happens against most experienced/aggressive people I meet in Judo)

    As soon as I grab hold and/or lift a leg to reap, he'll have aleady initiated a seio nage when I take hold OR he'll do osoto gari/ osoto garuma/ osoto otoshi before I get the chance

    ^my speed! The problem is that as soon as they throw me/attempt to, I back off in fear of getting thrown

    Another problem is conflicting arguments: some say tuck your chin in to avoid whiplash/concussion but in tachi waza, I am told to keep chin up so my head (therefore my weight) isn't pointed down at the ground/I can throw the other person properly.

    I have a competition on 4th March-first BJA sanctioned one and it's open grade :( What to do to prepare/what should I personally stick to after seeing that video of me (page 1)
     
  2. Princess Haru

    Princess Haru Valued Member

    Well, just taking your video it would appear you do better the longer the match is on, so maybe you need to work in a tactic to try size up your opponent for the first minute or so. Of course I don't know competitive judo and this might be against teh rules. The more experienced judoka I've partnered in randori are more relaxed and upright, at least until a grip is initiated, then really pull to get reaction, checking my balance, maybe deciding what is the best option for a throw. The most successful throws are immediately after the grip. I'm a novice so often miss my best opportunities when I have got a favourable reaction and even an off balance, because my concern is to avoid getting thrown. Sometimes you have to allow a throw or two to learn how others do it, then try to apply what they did. I apply some of my weight training strategy in practice, instead of two minutes of feeling I'm being wrestled around the mats and sometimes thrown I break and engage (like short 1-2 rep sets), maybe I'll only get three throw attempts in three minutes but I have no competitive aspirations. Good luck
     
  3. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Keep chin tucked in, keep looking at them not their legs, grip fight and move.
     
  4. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    Principle: always stun or unbalance before you throw or lock.

    For the most part this would be using atemi and striking through a kuzushi; however, in Judo, the atemi is limited but with grips you can push and pull to unbalance.

    The concept is that before you attempt a throw, make sure your opponent is unbalanced first using pushing, pulling, turning, moving, timing. For unbalancing you can step into a kuzushi and throw them out of it or you can strike them/throw them into a kuzushi.

    Well if your instinct is to back off, turn that instinct into something useful. Perhaps work on some throws like Uki Otoshi:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjQN_4iGGlU"]Uki-otoshi - YouTube[/ame]

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGO3qhkOQSM"]Uki otoshi Mifune - YouTube[/ame]
     
  5. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    Always try to achieve the following:

    - You have 2 grips on your opponent, but he has only 1 grip on you.
    - You have 1 grip on your opponent, but he has no grip on you.
    - When your opponent gets 2 grips on you, sacrisfice your own grips and break his grips apart.

    Try not to get into "dead lock" that you have 2 grips and your opponent also has 2 grips and nobody can do anything.
     
  6. ronki23

    ronki23 Valued Member

    Well I had my first BJA competition today and I completely messed it up

    * No novice/intermediate categories- I did this anyway because BJA HARDLY HAS novice/intermediate category competition
    *Had to fight EVERYONE in the category- 4/5 brown/black belts- the only kyu grade I had a realistic chance of beating was 3rd match so I had to fight 2 black belts- I HAD to take it easy/ kept getting shidos as I didn't want to get broken before fighting them-naturally I lost
    * An official was being stupid because I was barefoot off the tatami and they made me walk onto it a specific way
    *3 of my losses were via holddown

    How is anyone supposed to be good at this if they can't compete? You could do just randori but it takes years to get good enough

    Also (off topic) do freestyle wrestling comps have novice categories.

    I'm thinking of training and not competiting until I get good and physically strong in the gym.

    I wanted to do MMA and planned 3-4 judo/wrestling comps- I did 2 last year (one with the video posted) and this year I thought maybe 2-3 comps (both judo and wrestling) but i'm unsure now. I wanted to fight MMA later next year and focused on this but this is worse than shying away from punches in kickboxing :( :( :(
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 4, 2012
  7. Princess Haru

    Princess Haru Valued Member

    Several of the guys at my club regularly visit other clubs in the area for randori sessions with judoka they are less familiar with to get more practice in for competitions.

    Oh, bad luck btw. I think some local/regional comps have lower grade entry for seniors but they also tend to combine them with kyu/dan grades so chances are at least a few high grades will be there too.
     
  8. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    If you wanted to even try to get into MMA then eat a spoon of cement and harden up.
    Take punches, kicks and throws.
    Lose a lot against the experienced and inexperienced and learn from your mistakes.
    You got the opportunity to have randori with blackbelts in a judo competition. How is that a bad thing. Thats an amazing learning experience.
    If you want to just constantly win without a challenge, buy a chainsaw and have spar with a tree.
     
  9. ronki23

    ronki23 Valued Member

    Maybe because i'm paying money to lose? When I go to a competition I want to win but i've daffodilled up again (this is the second competition I gave the throw/dropped down to the floor with a lame Tomo Nage and tried to get into ne-waza but got beaten by hold down)

    I've had 5 matches that i've lost by dropping/getting held down.

    I think it's ridiculous how BJA competitions have no novice category/ you have to fight loads of black belts. I guess the fault on my part is taking it easy against the black belts but I didn't want to get broken before fighting that kyu grade (who beat me by ippon anyway)

    Also MMA is not essential-I said I don't mind fighting Sport JJ/ Sambo-anything that combines strikes,throws and grappling
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 4, 2012
  10. ronki23

    ronki23 Valued Member

    Went to Hampshire Closed Competition (County level)
     
  11. Frodocious

    Frodocious She who MUST be obeyed! Moderator Supporter

    Ronki23, please stop using masked profanities in your posts. They are against the ToS.
     
  12. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    Let go of your ego, stop thinking about winning and pain and MMA and just enjoy the learning experience and you'll get better much quicker.
     
  13. ronki23

    ronki23 Valued Member

    you think I mean to turn away (kickboxing)/drop to the ground (judo)-people say if you loosen up/keep looking at them it won't hurt as bad but subconsciously that happens

    Also do wrestling comps have categories?
     
  14. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    The only problem is if you keep losing, you may feel discourage and quite soon. I'll suggest not to enter any tournament if you don't think that you have prepared to the best ability as you can.

    Old Chinese saying said, "The 1st time is strong, the 2nd time is weaker, the 3rd times is the weakest." If you lose 3 tournaments in a role, it will be hard to rebuild your self-confidence back for the rest of your life.
     
  15. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    Learn to breakfall well. the thing with competitions is that its going to hurt no matter what.
    Wrestling comps have catergories only for age and weight. so make sure you have a decent skillset before you go in. maybe after a year or more of training.

    Also this.
    dont enter comps until you feel prepared and you've learnt from your previous mistakes.
    in randori, avoid your strengths, play your weaknesses
    in competition, play your strengths avoid your weaknesses.
     
  16. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    Agree! Another way to describe this can be "In training, try to develop new moves. In competation, only use your favor moves". My teacher's brother told me that in all his lifetime tournament experience, he had always enter exactly the same way and never changed. The moment that his left arm had wrapped around his opponent's waist, his opponent will only go down.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2012
  17. Princess Haru

    Princess Haru Valued Member

    I dunno, to be fair these closed competitions make it tough for high kyu grades to get experience. Its quite possible someone could be on the English team paired up with a white belt of the same weight
     
  18. ronki23

    ronki23 Valued Member

    Exactly

    I will train and give the wrestling comp in 6 weeks a go-not competing judo anymore~there aren't many wrestling clubs in the country and I may be moving in a few months so i'll do it-even though i'll probably lose

    Many people say S&C takes away fear of getting hurt- what's the science behind it? There aren't muscles in your nose/on your face and no muscles covering up the floating rib so if you can't build them up how do you increase pain threshold?
     
  19. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    It's like eating curry - you get used to the heat eventually, but at first it burns!
     
  20. finite monkey

    finite monkey Thought Criminal

    Forget sacrifice throws.

    From my own bitter experiance (only orange myself), they may seem like a quick fix/easy option, but they will fool your development as a judoka

    Since I have given up on sacrifice throws and concentrated on basic, bread and butter throws (osota gari, o-goshi, ippon seo nage etc), my judo has improved no end (though thats not saying much ;])

    Bad luck at the comp by the way. Dont give up
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2012

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