How did General Choi create Taekwondo, if it was a unification of styles?

Discussion in 'Tae Kwon Do' started by itf-taekwondo, Dec 1, 2014.

  1. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    this is actually off-topic but a much more fascinating discussion anyway...lol....

    maybe danish is better for english? sure, romans ruled brittania for some time and i believe the term acrolectal is used to denote the influence of a ruling class on a language. english though is actually based on danish and germanic languages, not latin. not to put too fine a point on it, but you'd actually be better off knowing french (itself based on latin) as a way of getting a deeper understanding of english culture and history--think guillaume.

    sure, nothing wrong with your analogy. i would just specify a bit more. :)

    maybe another good analogy for taekwondo is like the great vowel shift in english, taekwondo also has taken karate and changed it to the peculiarities of the korean peninsula.

    <you know what i deserve an award for somehow bringing the great vowel shift into a conversation about korean martial arts>
     
  2. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    ???????????

    A fine example of displaying a dearth of historical knowledge. Rather elementary historical MA knowledge,no less.
     
  3. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    I actually took Old English as part of my university degree - although reading Beowulf in it was cool it was bugger all use!!!
     
  4. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    i'm impressed dude! i was an english major myself.
     
  5. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    Likewise. A significant portion of my first degree involved Old English and Middle English dialects.

    I had to branch out a bit and get Latin and Italian and French later on.
     
  6. itf-taekwondo

    itf-taekwondo Banned Banned

    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-QdYc0-GYo"]Gen Choi Hong Hi interview P-2 - YouTube[/ame]

    5:42

    "Taekwon-Do and Karate are not related, and are two entirely different martial arts."

    - General Choi.

    Tell me then, what in fact this General was promoting in the late 50s and early 60s, before establishing patterns, if not Karate?
     
  7. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    I'd suggest that modern English is comprised of at least as much Latin (or French) as ancient Anglisch. Many more formal words have a Latin origin as it was the language of law and religion.
    I love some of the juxtapositions. Cow is Anglo-Saxon but beef is Franco-Latin.
     
  8. itf-taekwondo

    itf-taekwondo Banned Banned

    I expect warnings and possibly bans for these off topic clowns. Oh, wait, they are already friends of the community. Rules won't apply.:rolleyes:
     
  9. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Its tangental but on topic so your little temper tantrum is misplaced

    However, feel free to leave....you won't be missed and it isn't as if you contribute anything anyway
     
  10. itf-taekwondo

    itf-taekwondo Banned Banned

    Nobody forced you to take part in my thread. If you don't like it, go somewhere else. Your opinion of me uninteresting, to say the least.

    This thread is about General Choi, who openly states how Taekwondo is not related to Karate and is a completley different martial art.
     
  11. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    And as thread drift is inevitable there will be diversions such as the one about language origins, which directly relates to the conversation about parent arts and offspring systems

    This isn't YOUR thread and you have zero say in how it unfolds.
     
  12. itf-taekwondo

    itf-taekwondo Banned Banned

    Language studies, origins, and your very uninteresting degree, has no place in a thread about the legitimacy of General Chois insane claims.
     
  13. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Actually it does when the discussion is about how much a knowledge of "x" is required in understanding "Y" - sorry to burst that bubble for you

    Any chance of you answering Mitch's questions or are you going tuck willy and run again?
     
  14. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Just in case you forgot - your play cupcake
     
  15. itf-taekwondo

    itf-taekwondo Banned Banned

    No prior studies of language are required to understand sentence formations such as: Not related and completely different.

    The man lived on another planet.
     
  16. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    That's enough
     
  17. TKDstudent

    TKDstudent Valued Member

    Gen. Choi did indeed learn & teach karate in Japan. Back in Korea, 7 Koreans taught what was basically karate from Japanese sources with some minor CMA influence. They called it Tang Su Do, Kong Soo Do, Kwon Bup, Hwa Su Do before Gen. Choi conceived the TKD name.
    However only the Oh Do Kwan & Ching Do Kwan, which Gen. Choi was the honorary director of, used TKD as a label to describe what they were doing in 1955. But the cold stark reality was that it was still karate brought to Korea by Koreans from Japan. So efforts were taken to distance themselves from the obvious roots. No TKD is not 2,000 years old.
    Some will look at TKD & say it is karate or Korean karate. That is fine by me, as it is in the end in the eye of the beholder. I do not think that TKD today is karate, nor is it Japanese. I do realize that there is also more than 1 TKD today, each style evolving from the karate roots differently & to different extents. In fact some calling what they do TKD, still do karate katas! So to each tier own!

    Gen. Choi never unified the Kwans! He tried in 1959 but it did not last. His efforts were superseded by the civilians who started to come together under the Tae SOO Do compromise name. This was when Gen. Choi was busy trying to stabilize the country as a military coup took over the country. Then Gen. Choi was pushed out of the Army & sent to Malaysia as the 1st Korean Ambassador. He returned & was elected the 3rd president of the KTA in 1965. He pressured them to take the name TKD, which they did, but he no longer had the power to for ice them to adopt his style, which was centered around his Patterns, as they focused around the new sport sparring rule set.
    The unification of the Kwans came in 1978 when they were retired, numbered & rolled into the Kukkiwon. Gen. Choi had already fled to a life in exile to escape political persecution as he opposed the military dictators & their brutal rule. Dr. Kim UN-Yong, the father of Olympic TKD is the one who is credited with the unification of the Kwans, as he was KCIA & had the power & force of the SK dictatorships behind him.
     
  18. Earl Weiss

    Earl Weiss Valued Member

    It is when you selectively cherry pick comments and use comments out of Context. When he says TKD and Karate are different / unrelated, in the very same breath he also makes similar reference to Kung Fu and Karate and Thai Boxing and Karate being unrelated as having different purpose and form.

    So, once again you neglect qualifying and limiting language, showing either an intent to mislead or a failure to comprehend.

    I can't help but wonder if english is your primary language.

    Based on your moniker I can't help but wonder if you take pleasure in trolling, by bashing the ITF Founder yet using that in your moniker, or simply love to throw out opinions like you did with the "Breaking is for conditioning" comment which are simply rash generalizations based on limited knowledge and experience.
     
  19. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    I know he's been banned so this may fall on deaf ears but what TKD is and what Choi said it was are not the same thing.
    At various point's Choi's motivation was to promote TKD not offer a completely open discussion about the origins (as can be seen by his u-turn on Taekeon).
     
  20. Matt F

    Matt F Valued Member

    I am saying that to fully understand karate styles that trace back to Chinese systems you have to understand the Chinese systems they come from.
     

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