How can you feel Qi?

But how does acupuncture relate to Qi in the sense of body movement and breathing?

In other words, how can a explanation of it in reference of Qi be explained to the novice/layman?

 

To the layman, 'Qi' is meaningless. To those who have genuinely developed some ICMA/otherwise/natural-ability etc; 'Qi' is at best an ancient Taoist term for energy as endlessly yacked about, here and elsewhere.

However, as Neigung, hand and weaponForms, Pushing Hands, armed and unarmed applications vs 1 or more attackers, Sanshou and other aspects are developed; awareness of the movements, positioning, timing, strategies&tactics, contact qualities, force exchanges combine to inform the honest and diligent practitioner, regarding one's own postural stability and martial capability of change - and to disguise one's weaknesses (slightly) - and exploit the intent and weaknesses/holes in opponents; then maybe this is what some folk might label as energy exploitation/optimisation, but probably not Cheese.

Personally I do not know anyone who ever uses the term. So what point for the layman?

 

I like a good sceptical review as it is important that we keep people honest when involved in treating patients.

So here is the problem.. I have a patient who is screaming in pain after a Brown Sequard lesion of her spinal cord where she has constant pain but no longer any ability to move. Meds haven't worked and there is no way to do rehab because she is suffering too much. You would say what? That other stuff isn't effective so don't try it? Well we had a GP who was also a TCM doctor come in and within 3 sessions she was full bore into her rehab. Yeah it might be placebo but if you aren't seeing any response to conventional treatments then your suggestion would be to do what?

There have been a small number of studies that have shown acupuncture to be effective in a small number of conditions. Not enough for my tastes . Still when I speak to people who are from the orient and trained in the methodology they scoff at the studies. Their response is that you have a person half trained in the basics make a design and then decide on the outcomes.. sort of like using a third year medical student to decide if western medicine has any use. There have been lots of questionable practices in both realms.. we are still waiting on getting some of them fixed in both areas as well.

Not a problem really. In research, a lack of evidence is not evidence of lack, only that the null hypothesis is more likely to be the case in the studies carried out so far. I'm not sure whether there is any point to further studies but since I have seen people who neither like the idea of acupuncture nor feel it can help improve anyway, I try to not let my biases get in the way of their improvement.

Just a case in point. Any place where there is pain in the muscular system on palpation is called an ah shi point. Potentially putting a needle in any place that is sensitive should trigger off a reaction where the body produces endogenous opiates etc to help settle things and thus have a quasi systemic effect. Is this guaranteed to work? Nope! Might not be a strong enough stimulus, might be just not sensitive enough of an area. Still for some it works when meds don't.

Funny thing about the review. It discusses acupuncture in what would be thought of as a western medical context. Acupuncture is a slice out fo ''traditional east asian medicine'' and has various facets and theories that are quite separate from the practice of acupuncture as a separate and isolated art. Not what I do/practise but to be accurate the review seemed to be confused about what was and what wasn't involved in the diagnosis and treatment in traditional east asian medicine.

Sometimes you have to ignore the nonsense theories that are put forward. When you are dealing with patients it isn't as simple as telling them we won't try anything. Otherwise a whole lot of medicines would never be used in the manner in which they are used today.

Just sayin'

LFD

(oh by the way.. I don't charge for using acupuncture just in case one thinks that I am a ''high street huckster'' :' )

Just for fun - '' http://www.oapublishinglondon.com/images/article/pdf/1400668665.pdf '' Acupuncture analgesia: Is it verum or sham? OA Anaesthetics - same year

 

According to all the latest studies acupuncture is not a "myth" per se, most of the recent research has eliminated various biases and experiment flaws and now they are actually starting to be able to prove a noticeable, non-placebic effect.

Is that not true about acupuncture? It seems that while there are always skeptics even some doctors, the studies now prove it is effective (on various levels, without drugs, for specific conditions especially pain management), especially the part about mapped vs. "random" accupoints...the closer to mapped acupuncture points, the more noticeable effect beyond placebo. Please keep in mind that this is from the available research, not my own experience with acupuncture (which was noticeably positive). I am usually skeptical myself, of "op-ed" pieces written by doctors that don't actually study or supply acupuncture treatment, commenting on it. You don't see the opposite...acupuncture doctors lecturing other doctors on the exclusive merits of their own medicine and so forth (even in modern medicine, mistakes are often made, sometimes based on the subjective decisions of MDs on holistic, whole body medicine that some "alternative" medical practices have learned to deal with over many, many generations).

AS far as its relation to Qi, I think it's a mistake to connect the two. Even though they share a historical relationship, it is mostly happenstance. Acupuncture "works" without any belief or concept of "Qi", according to the available medical literature. That just happens to an ancient Chinese medical system that connects "qi" and acupuncture.

 

I knew a guy in college who could apparently channel chi. He demonstrated it by placing his hand a few inches away from my arm, which caused a tingly/slightly numb sensation. He said it was his chi reacting against my chi. IDK how much truth there was to it. I was young and impressionable, so it could have been entirely in my head.

 

I know one thing that changed my perspective of Qi gong and tai chi was realizing the importance of feeling the muscles streach. You could compare it to standing yoga and the breath to help relax the body and get oxygen to the muscles? Also point out when they feel energized or good, then that is Qi. A lay man would be more interested in the benefits they get then the details.

Probably not what your looking for, but just an idea.

 

what techniques are used by this guy ?
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LkhVeW7VV0"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LkhVeW7VV0[/ame]

 

you can not see the difference? that guy using one finger, and you are using 5 fingers, so many people can use the 5 fingers, but with one finger? I only saw 3-5 people in the world

 

strong than you ? muscle ? size ? or what ? there many guys more muscular, more strong than him, but cannot doing the same as him



I've already said that I learned MP less than 2 month

before Silat MP, I studied Silat Golok Seliwa (machete), and Silat Cimande

i need 18 months with 2 times a week to be able to use the vibration technique of Silat MP

 

i already said that i saw 3-5 people can do that, and i already watch the video long long time ago before you telling me

1. more than a hundreds of people can lift up body with 5 fingers, but one finger ? not many of them can do that
2. if we look at their body, nothing special between the guy using 1 finger and the others, but how can they do that ? it's not just muscle or bones, but with human potential they can do that

 

Practice.

HA! Got you there didn't I.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNAF5pAQENI"]Inglourious Basterds 1080p - You know how to get to Carnegie Hall, dont'cha? Practice! - YouTube[/ame]

 

Anyone can do it if they train for it...personally can think of much better things to spend my time on

I have a hard time believing you are this clueless

 

I have seen fitness competitions where people who are way too fit do things like this. Being fitness geeks, I presume they are into diet science, work out science, etc. I don't think 'Qi' figures into their training routine. And yet, they do all those things you insist on being Qi techniques.

 

Qi can be expressed in many ways but it is not a simple thing one can explain to a layperson in simple Western terms, especially if you have no firsthand experience or research experience with it. If I anyone told you they took medicine for some ailment and got better we'd take it for granted. Same with surgery. Not so with TCM. Why? Mostly cultural bias and a lack of information. Some people can send a surge of electricity(for lack of a better term) from their hands into another person's body. It sounds unbelievable because that defies our understanding of how the world works. However, one's disbelief would not change that reality.

We can talk to people we can't see, fly in the sky, or even travel to the heavens. A hundred years or so ago, even thinking such things were possible would've probably gotten you put in a straightjacket but they are mundane things to us. Science will catch up eventually so people will be less clueless about qi in all it's aspects. Unknown does not make mysterious, that is an active imagination's role.

 

I really don't wish to seem like i am going out of my way to offend you, but the way you justify some of the things you believe make you seem at times both incredibly arrogant and naive simultaneously.

 

Don't worry I'm not easily offended. Nor am I naïve. However, I do have some experience with qi, both experiential and from a very elementary "research" standpoint. Do you? I'm not sure how your opinion of my beliefs effects the discussion of qi.