Hoshin Ryu Sword Curriculum and Niten Ichi Ryu

Discussion in 'Weapons' started by ScottUK, Nov 26, 2006.

  1. Kogusoku

    Kogusoku 髭また伸びた! Supporter

    It's based on Japanese arts and it has stolen techniques from a Japanese koryu. There is no gossip, it's a bloody fact mate.

    Teaching a technique from a koryu and saying; "This is how so-and-so-ryu do things" is OK for the edification of your students, but stealing an entire syllabus? There are ethics and manners in budo. If you don't have them, do something else for goodness sake.

    You have had several high level exponents of Hyoho Niten Ichi-ryu on here and e-budo say that neither Mr. Morris or Mr. Glimme attended any HNIR keiko in the states, Europe or Japan.

    You have even had an English speaking Menkyo holder in HNIR give his views. They weren't favourable.

    End of.
  2. ScottUK

    ScottUK More human than human...

    I would like to have seen Mr Glimme or even Mr Hessie contribute to this thread as he is the head of the organisation Mr Glimme represents.

    It is a shame that Mr Glimme has left the fighting to his students, rather than addressed the issue himself.
  3. pgsmith

    pgsmith Valued dismemberer

    And this is not a problem unless you are associated with this particular group. If you are associated with this group, then that's just something that you're going to have to grow a thick skin about. When senior exponents within their organization are stealing from others and selling it, when those in charge not only seem to condone this sort of behaviour, they actually seem to expect and encourage it. When these sort of things happen, their organization will quickly become a joke within forums such as this one. You may be entirely sincere in your training, and your instructor may be as talented and legitimate as they come. However, if you are connected with this organization you will be painted with the same brush. I've seen the same thing happen several times in the past, and the only way to separate yourself from the frauds and shysters is to vote with your feet. Whining and complaining about it avails nothing.
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2007
  4. K0koro

    K0koro Valued Member


    As far as I'm aware, Ed Glimme hasnt left it to his students to fight, No one on here that I am aware of has met with him or is a student. For people in the UK you have had more contact with him via mail than me. Therefore using the same analogies a lot of people appear to be using on MAP at the moment (Not you by the way) you are the best person to show his system and defend it as you must be a student of his, seeing as you have spent so much time talking to him via email.

    Now that is absolute rubish as we both know.
  5. K0koro

    K0koro Valued Member


    Personally dont know enough about the system in general i.e. HNIR, never seen it, never seen The Hosin Sword stuff, so I cant personally agree or disagree with you. Seeing as you must have purcased the Hoshin Sword syllabus to compare the techniques and not just one off the Internet.

    Couldnt agree more, but I am not in a position to say the entire syllabus has been stolen, unlike yourself.

    Agreed totally 100%, please look in the mirror sometime as from this perspective you dont have them in the slightest from where I am standing. Also please dont pre judge me without knowing me. I tend not to pay much attention to people who cant read basic text as you didnt on the Glenn Morris thread. Actually read what I write instead of reading in your own personal viewpoint.

    Again cant disagree, but if they havent attended them, where did they get the full syllabus from? Which dirt bag gave them the entire syllabus, maybe HNIR also needs to clean its own house as well.

    Agree, saw the thread, his words were I believe that is not HNIR, when I queried did he mean in literally, I received no answer, other than other people stating it is not HNIR, on e-budo thread if you want reference. So is it or isnt it, it does not claim to be, Senior in HNIR says it isnt. but you guys say it is. Me personally dont know not seen HNIR, I am however personally inclined to believe the senior of HNIR on this point.

    I truely hope so. But somehow I doubt it from your side.

    But I will ask one final question for anyone who wishes to answer, and I am genuinely intrigued in the answer.

    If a student of the system and a teacher at that, did something you didnot agree with in a Dojo or seminar that you attended, would you leave your entire Martial Art style, or would you continue your training in your own Dojo in a different country that you live in?
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2007
  6. Kogusoku

    Kogusoku 髭また伸びた! Supporter

    Then I'd suggest you actually do some homework before actually commenting.

    Hoshin-ryu sword curriculum DVD trailer

    Read the e-budo thread again.

    When the seniors such as Hyaku say it isn't HNIR, they mean that there is no spirit in it and it's just not the way it's done. They weren't talking about the kata itself.

    However, we are actually referring to the literal format of the kata, which is blatantly ripped off.

    :love: Handbags at dawn sweetie?

    It goes back to Confucian ideals about eating bitters - Either you keep eating, or when you've had enough, leave the table.

    However that being said, if you aren't licenced in the ryuha, there's no point trying to continue. Additionally, if you are given hamon, you're licences are revoked anyway. No-win situation for those who don't know 'Gaman' (我慢 - Perseverance, Endurance & self control)

    You've got to remember that budo and koryu in general are not democracies. If you don't like what's going down and it doesn't suit you, feel free to leave. However, if you want to stick around, obey the rules and guidelines.
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2007
  7. ScottUK

    ScottUK More human than human...

    An interesting question, but it poses a different question for me:

    If I was a Hoshin student, would I be happy studying a system that has been created from a number of different sources, probably a good few of them only at an elementary level, like how Mr Glimme has skimmed a layer from the top of HNIR and is calling it a 'sword curriculum'?

    The answer is no, I would run. Coming from my mentality of MA, I appreciate the simple, strightforwardness of koryu teaching - passed from teacher to student with the same approach to the techniques as their teacher did.

    Mr Glimme's very best student can only demonstrate a way-below-average attempt at HNIR kenjutsu. I wonder if Mr Glimme's guys appreciate that?
  8. K0koro

    K0koro Valued Member

    Sorry for being away the last 2 days, managed to be in a car incident on the motoway saturday evening.



    Thanks for the link supplied, as I have stated I have no knowledge of the HNIR system from which to copare the clip to. I have as you will have seen if you read my post never stated that it isnt a cheap copy of HNIR, but without anything to compare it to, it is just a demo of sword movements.

    You say I should read the e-budo thread again, ok, will do, but if you are correct and he has never studied the system, never attended any seminars are werent students then I will accept that the information is in the e-budo thread that states who taught him. I will check the thread.

    Ok if they had said that, it certainly would have stopped some conversation. If they had said the Kata were HNIR, but done badly, that is one thing, but when someone says something isnt HNIR in the case, and a question is asked to clarify and is ignored, then I tend to be dubious of the sincerity of the individual concerned. Probably a personal fault on my end, I tend to answer a question when asked.

    Not really, dont swing that way :eek:

    I tend to reply in the manner of the post aimed at me, someone infers something I will try and respond in kind, as in this case. The issue with text on a screen is it doesnt always reflect what was inferred.

    Agree 100%, No Dojo should be a democracy, period in my personal opinion.

    But I'm struggling to see however how this would be the case in this instance as the individual in question was never a member as per your statement and Hyaku I believe.

    Good training.
  9. Lord Spooky

    Lord Spooky Banned Banned

    Cool I know them! er hold on I’ve never done Hoshin? :confused: :eek: :D

    Sorry folks even I can see those are badly done HNIR kata.

    Made me feel better about my Nagashi Uchi anyway. :cool:
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2007
  10. K0koro

    K0koro Valued Member


    I can appreciate where you are coming from, but dont you find that you go through a lot of martial art styles :D

    By that I mean as per my question if one person is teaching wrong, or not what you think is correct, but everyone else is teaching differently and what you like, you would leave the whole art!!!

    Being in the Bujinkan it would certainly bring the number of students down, if everyone did as you would do. :eek:


    Only if you have seen HNIR :bang:

    And yes I have seen similar sword techniques done, and yes they had a lot more feeling to them and technique.
  11. Lord Spooky

    Lord Spooky Banned Banned

    Sorry what I meant was even to me with my limited experience in HNIR they look er not quite right shall we say.

    Wasn't just feeling that doesn't look right; Kamae looked wrong cuts didn't seem correct. Again please keep in mind I only have a very small amount of experience doing HNIR. I'm comparing what I see in the clip to what I see in the Dojo.

    There seems to be something missing and I think (Scott please correct me if I'm wrong) it begins with S and ends in N. :confused: ;)

    My argument comes back to that if there were a group of people teaching Bujinkan Kata as part of their system yet they didn't have permission to teach Bujinkan nor had any experince of it then there would be an uproar in the Ninjutsu forum!

    The Ninjers would be revolting, yes I know some of the Walsall lot already are :D
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2007
  12. ScottUK

    ScottUK More human than human...

    Koryu ain't for everyone, Dave. I have been training for 22-23 years and have seen good & bad, simple & complex. I have seen a lot of teachers practicing for a few years, realising they know better than their sensei and creating their own bastardised style. I'm not knocking that if that's what you are into - I just would never practice it.

    Spooky practices HNIR kenjutsu.
  13. ScottUK

    ScottUK More human than human...

    There is something missing indeed. Somewhere between the opening and closing reiho there should be good solid technique.
  14. Kogusoku

    Kogusoku 髭また伸びた! Supporter

    I concur.
  15. Kogusoku

    Kogusoku 髭また伸びた! Supporter

    Try Z and N. 残心  :)
  16. saru1968

    saru1968 New Member

    Is there an 'A' in there too?
  17. Kogusoku

    Kogusoku 髭また伸びた! Supporter

    Yes, boys and girls, let's play budo hangman! :D

    Z _ _ _ _ _ N

    Last edited: Feb 6, 2007
  18. fifthchamber

    fifthchamber Valued Member

    They had a lot of that in there though...Must be wrong eh?
  19. Kogusoku

    Kogusoku 髭また伸びた! Supporter


    Do you know how hard it is to get irn-bru out of a keyboard?
  20. K0koro

    K0koro Valued Member


    Agree with you on the Koryu not for everyone.

    Asking a second question,

    I take it Scott that you have never come across any idiots / people not doing things correctly as an instructor in the style you study?

    Genuine question, as I am envious of that point if that is true.

    Also bear in mind guys, name one style in the world that didnt at some stage copy another and change elements in the course of Martial Arts history. Not saying it is right, but it does occur. Bruce Lee anyone!!!!!!!!!

    And before anyone says it , I'm not comparing anyone in Hoshin to Bruce Lee.

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