Horse stance obsolete?

Discussion in 'MMA' started by Anonymouse, Aug 30, 2004.

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  1. Yukimushu

    Yukimushu MMA addict

    I'd have to disagree there :) If we all thought like that then we'd still be watching black and white tv, our mobile phones would still be big bricks; and we wouldn't be squatting :)

    Instead we strive for new, possibly more effective ways to improve ourself, and our performance.

    That is what mma is all about really.
     
  2. Scarlet Mist

    Scarlet Mist Banned Banned

    Right, have you ever thought that color TV's are part of the reason people lose their sight earlier? I'm not saying we should still use the black and white ones, but maybe you'd rather watch a black and white TV than not watch one at all.

    Good point anyway
     
  3. Trent Tiemeyer

    Trent Tiemeyer Valued Member

    Shut off your TVs and get back to the computer, kids.

    Scarlet, you believe that the horse stance will strengthen the legs as well as squats. Why? It's a simple matter of isometrics versus plyometrics.

    Do you do pushups, or just go halfway down and hold for an hour?
     
  4. Scarlet Mist

    Scarlet Mist Banned Banned

    We hold as well. Holding's good. But you seem to know more about this than I do, I shall say no more, I will go to the gym and squat tomorrow.
     
  5. Trent Tiemeyer

    Trent Tiemeyer Valued Member

    Just try it for a couple weeks. It's like putting springs in your legs. I do a hundred every morning.
     
  6. Matt_Bernius

    Matt_Bernius a student and a teacher

    1on1, can you post a link to a website that would have a good visual reference of the squats you do?

    What it seems to be this is even more than a horse stance vs. squat thread is a traditional exercise vs modern exercise thread. We're not addressing the use of a horse stance, or for that matter a squat, for combat. Rather we're talking about strength and conditioning.

    So for the TMA people, from a conditioning standpoint, what's the use of a horse stance?

    - Matt
     
  7. Ad McG

    Ad McG Troll-killer Supporter


    Extension of this - what is the use of the static holding of horse stance vs. squatting? To me, there is no comparison.
     
  8. Anonymouse

    Anonymouse Guitar wielding maniac

    Jeez, I come back from work and theres 46 posts. :D

    Before I started MMA, Id never done a squat (other than just messing around in the gym with weights), now that we do them all the time, I can feel (and see) the benifit over the horse stance training I was doing, but... no matter how many squats I do, I still cant seem to hold my stance any longer. Its definitely two different kinds of strength, why not do both?
     
  9. JamesD

    JamesD Valued Member

    I agree that the horse stance could be used for muscle endurance and mental training. However, in MMA like others have stated, we strive to improve upon our strenght and power and speed. I don't see how the horse stance can provide that. For those who think the horse stance is the same as a squat: This is a horse stance, not a squat.[​IMG]
    If that is all the further down you go in a squat you probably shouldn't waste your time squating as you aren't going to get the real benefit. I do three types of squats in my workouts, heavy squats, band squats and speed squats; collectively they add both strenght/power and speed. If you just want muscle endurance I would even go as far as recommed you do pause squats. use light weight, 50% of 1RM, squat to parallel, hold for 3 count, raise up, repeat for 5 reps.

    As far as the judo throwing and using the horse stance, I don't see it. You have to Squat a lot lower than a horse stance to get your hips under your opponent. and if your legs are spread out as far as someone in a horse stance, you are gonna be pulled backward onto your butt.
     
  10. Smee

    Smee Evil kung fu genius

    Don't want to take thread back off topic but one example after a brief search.
     

    Attached Files:

  11. JamesD

    JamesD Valued Member

    I wouldn't call that a horse stance.
     
  12. Smee

    Smee Evil kung fu genius

    I would. Application is always much messier than training. Again, comes down to your perception of "stance". Where you see a horse stance will depend on whether you see stances as fixed or fluid or a combination of both.

    Just my opinion....
     
  13. cybermonk

    cybermonk New Member

    To me that looks like a horse stance gone wrong, if you insist in calling it a horse stance that is.

    -Back to the horse stance vs squat discussion, squats are great I used to have them as part of my workout but as of late I have been so sore I can barely walk, let alone do squats. Squats and horse stances are equally important, squats for strength-horse stance for endurance, mental strength and weight distribution and balance. My advice--do both, I dont see why you cant do both but if you want the most out of your horse stance training you should do it standing on two bricks the size of your feet, that way if your center of gravity is wrong you will notice.

    Someone asked why we train horse stance in a static way when we are supposed to use it in motion, the answer is simple: Its the same with all the other stances, you train them static so that you could perfect your form and position, that way when you use it in that split second in sparring or combat you can gain all the benefits of correct positioning.

    Somehow this thread its starting to take the view of the squats overlapping the horse stance, which is in my oppinion not the right way to look at it; they are two different types of excersises and doing one will not make you excelent at another. I have seen guys who could bench a lot but cant give me a decent ammount of push-ups, the same I have seen guys who could squat a lot and cant hold a horse stance to save their lifes and of course the other way around also holds true. Just because you can hold a horse stance for a long time doesnt mean you are going to be the best squater in the gym and just because you can do 200 push ups wont make you a bench press record holder.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2004
  14. Smee

    Smee Evil kung fu genius

    As I said "Application is always much messier than training."

    Anyways, agree with everything you said cybermonk. IMO there is a place for both.

    Cheers
    Paul
     
  15. Yukimushu

    Yukimushu MMA addict

    That picture doesn't prove anything. The thrower in that picture will have his legs at that distance / position for about 1, or 2 seconds at the most? Rather than 5, or 10 mins in the stance. Thats a dynamic movement he's doing which is constantly changing.
     
  16. JamesD

    JamesD Valued Member

    And, the thrower has his right foot in the air, and his left foot has his weight on the balls of his feet with the heel up. And I don't believe he started that throw from a horse stance.
     
  17. cybermonk

    cybermonk New Member

    Or hours sometime :D
     
  18. Yukimushu

    Yukimushu MMA addict

    Whatever floats your boat :D:D

    Personally, i'd rather spend a few mins of those hours squatting; then the rest, doing alittle combo training on the heavy bag :)
     
  19. Ad McG

    Ad McG Troll-killer Supporter

    Can someone explain me this:

    When, aside from training like this, are you ever going to be sat in horse stance like this? If the answer is never, then why train it? If you use horse stance and are moving around all the time while using it, why train it statically? I don't see the point. If people are claiming it enhances endurance, what about doing bodyweight squats? You can't tell me that holding a static position that will be used very little has more use for endurance than doing reps of a bodyweight movement. I honestly can't see the logic, aside from the mental aspect of it.
     
  20. Yukimushu

    Yukimushu MMA addict

    I'll second that :) I completely agree Adam.
     
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