Horse stance obsolete?

I used to do a lot of karate and taekwondo, and Ive always done a good deal of horse stance training (standing in a deep stance for several minutes at a time). Does anyone in MMA still do these types of exercises anymore or has everyone gone to plain squats? In our MMA classes we do 4 sets of 25 hindu squats, when I first got there I wondered why the instructor didnt have us do any horse stance at all (I know we dont use the horse stance to fight in, but its a good exercise). Is it just obsolete now or what?

 

It's a good, isometric exercise. It's only useful, however, if you actually use the position involved- for sideways motions. Side kicks, elbow strikes, etc.

 

I think the squat is a MUCH better exercise for strengthening the legs, as it goes through a full range of motion.

 

I've got to respectfully disagree with a couple things in the above statement. First of all, we should separate stance for combat application vs. exercise. Many TMA programs have embraced modern training methodologies. So there is a good chance that you would see similiar warms ups in both types of schools.

As far as stances, if you look at historical photos of people in action in the TMA stances tended to be far less deep than popularly portrayed. The fact is low stances were used for exercise and for posing, but when it came time for combat fighters opted for a tighter, higher and more mobile base. And as that happens, traditional stances begin to look more and more like those we associate with the MMA. Which makes sense because there are only so many effective ways to fight.

As to the presence of the horse stance in MMA, you don't see it too often. Very rarely have I seen fighters go into a stance where they remove their rear hand weapons.

- Matt

 

The only use of the horse "stance" in combat is by dropping into it, to power a downward strike, an elbow for example.

 

Exactly. Dynamic exercises are better for building strength and explosiveness by going through the full range of motion, whereas horse stance training builds endurance and ultimately just helps you stay in a horse stance longer.

Kgirl, did it ever occur to you that maybe some of the 'traditional' exercises may be outdated and that modern sports science may be the best place to look...?

 

Ohh the MMA cats take over again ... A horse stance is the fastest way to drop and punch someone in the nuts. If there's a faster way, tell me. Also is good for evading bear hug.

 

"I think the squat is a MUCH better exercise for strengthening the legs, as it goes through a full range of motion."

"Exactly. Dynamic exercises are better for building strength and explosiveness by going through the full range of motion, whereas horse stance training builds endurance and ultimately just helps you stay in a horse stance longer."

Hmm, this is pretty much the wisdom I was looking for that for some reason I couldnt muster at 2am myself.

 

Snap kick. Much quicker, and puts you in less danger.

Why do horse stance when you could squat?

 

I think the horse stance is more of an endurance and mental strength issue rather than a strength one.

 

Again, can be accomplished with squats. Try repping out 3-500 and tell me it isn't upping your endurance and mental strength.

The squats give you far better results in a fraction of the time.

 

I do squats, but when i took karate, we did horse stance, and squats and horse stance seem to do different things for me

Squats) Seem to focus on the top part of you thighs and your ****, but the exersize it self does not focus on flexibility.

Horse stance) Focuses on your groin and lower thigh, also the top, but not as much as squats, but my **** seems to burn more from HS then squats.

I personally mix the two together. I go as low as i can in horse stance, then go up and down as fast as I can in horse stance. It is more affecteve then squats, more effective then just sitting in horse stance, depending on how low you go and how high you go as you rise and fall.

But maybe its just me!

p.s. In pakistan, the karate teachers DO teach horse stance, but they ALSO DO ALOT OF SQUATS. Why would they do both? Apprerently both exersizes have thier advantages.

 

Horse stance is also about breathing, feeling and sinking your chi......

Sits back.......lights fag........grasps both arms of the armchair.........squeezes sphincter.......waits for armageddon.......

Paul

 

Originally Posted by Matt_Bernius
As far as stances, if you look at historical photos of people in action in the TMA stances tended to be far less deep than popularly portrayed. The fact is low stances were used for exercise and for posing, but when it came time for combat fighters opted for a tighter, higher and more mobile base. And as that happens, traditional stances begin to look more and more like those we associate with the MMA. Which makes sense because there are only so many effective ways to fight.

Those very sentiments were expressed to me by a very well know traditional chinese martial artist. Low horse for training/posing, high horse for fighting. High horse = side on fighting stance with an appropriate guard. NOT, standing face on to opponent and exposing your GO nads to a swift booting.

There are lots of misconceptions about TMA. Horse stance being the biggest one.

Paul

 

What about throws? To make a good throw you have to sink in your weight first to get a good root right?

|Cain|

 

Good root, good base. Same thing, different name.

Forms are idealized representations of applicable techniques. When an opponent shoots for a double leg takedown and you sprawl.......take a snapshot of your positions during that sequence. The defender will be in a version of "horse stance". The word "stance" is misleading as it infers solidity or intransigence. Stance can be a fleeting thing that is adopted as the situation dictates. Training and actual use can appear to be very different. Some traditional MA have lost that viewpoint and may need to look at MMA to trigger their renewed understanding. However, all the information is there in the forms, it just needs to be re-interepreted and re-understood.

IMO

Paul

 

Those ARE squats.

 

I trained with a "real Shaolin monk". He did loads of repetitions of "squats". Does that make him an MMA person or a TMA person. Don't kid yourself that every TMA school run by Mr bl oody Miyagi. A lot of this "new" stuff has been around for ages but often overlooked or ignored.

Horse stance training is only one element of "gung" training.

Paul