I have heard good things about this club on this forum and intend to the battersea branch and the budokwai branch on Wednesday, I wanted to know is this style practical for modern day street self defence? http://hontaiyoshinryu.co.uk/index.html
What you are dealing with there is a system of Koryu Bujutsu. Now whilst they have a great deal to offer and can be applied to SD situations they are probably not the most efficient route if self defence is your only goal. There are a lot of considerations to take into account when studying koryu. This may help. www.koryu.com The main thing, IMO, to keep in mind is that the context these systems developed in is rather different to what you would deal with today. As a result there will be a number of aspects which would require adjustment or would simply be inappropriate. You have mention traditional systems a couple of times now and asked about their suitability for self defence, why not seek out specialist self defence training?
Hmmmmmm..........good to see a balanced, well thought out response to the question asked. To the OP, this club I have heard only good things about. The instructor is experienced and appears respected in traditional martial arts(TMA) circles. However you need to keep in mind that TMA's in general take longer to see results as it an art and tradition you are learning. Effectiveness for modern applications or self-defence depends on how good and experienced the instructor is and his ability/experience to adapt the principles for use in a different environment. Maybe someone who trains here may be able to post or think about attending a lesson and seeing what it's like.
Let's see if we can help then. I'm not aware of this club or what they do, but I do have an understanding when it comes to self defence. A little training can often be a bad thing when ot comes to SD. It is all too easy to get over confident. That said a hard training martial artist is probably better off in a confrontation than an untrained person. SD is as much about awareness, de-escalation and the like as it is the actual physical confrontation. If SD is really something that interests you I would talk to the instructor about it. I believe that good SD is a seperate subject along side normal martial training, but a knowledgeable instructor can certainly show and drill the applications he shows you in terms of how they apply in a confrontation. I say go and give it a try.
It may not even come down to that in a Koryu. Modern applications could well never enter into the equation, regardless of the teacher's level. It simply may not be appropriate for a ryu-ha. Counter Asault is supposed to have attended, not that I have much faith in his posts as they often come off as being dubious to say the least.
Hi, Studied with this dojo for a short period back in 2005/6 and also got the honour of training with Soke Kyoichi Munenori when he came down from the Honbu in Japan. (never seen such power and ease of movement from a small, elderly gentleman, was a pleasure to see) Training was very kata like being a Koryu art ie, learned some interesting sword work in my time there. Some good people there at the time, very strict dojo but to be expected. Did not see any form of Randori or free practice there so would not recommend for learning self protection as this could be learned quicker elsewhere, What is your martial art background? If your interested in Japanese culture and interested in a Japanese Ryu going right back to 1635 go for it. Let me know if you do! Again good people and good at what they do. Osu! Dan93
Hey! i thought we were getting on fine recently When i post something ryu related you crack out the history book it's all fun and games. i'm not rubbishing koryu jujitsu or anything i enjoy koryu jujitsu a big fan i study one or two. in fact hontai yoshin ryu at battersea is enjoyable, you can go drinking afterwards, it has weapon techniques and a fun class full of great welcoming students and very good instructor's. So if you want to learn something thats a codified pre meiji restoration art with lots of history then go for it. It's just the op said would this style be practical for modern day street self defence? And i'm sorry but i dont think it would if you are purely learning it for the one time you might get attacked in the street i'm not going to BS you and say yeah if you learn hontai yoshin ryu and someone attacks you, you will beat them so far into a coma they will think there back in the 1600's. I mean look at the kata structure, wrist grab, double wrist grab, punch, kick, single grab, double grab. none of it is going to be effective for any sort of argument or attack. Say your on a bus and some youths behind start pulling the back of your hair and you get off the bus and they start following you and suddenly you feel someone punch you in the back. you turn round and one tries to put you in a headlock. what do you do? you cant use any of the kata you spent months learning. they push you to the ground and start laying in kicks to your face. what do you do? a kick defence where you turn the foot and put it to the side?
Hmm.... Okay, then, first things first. You may want to ensure you can spell "jujutsu"... As for the rest, "you can go drinking afterwards"? Is that somehow related to the idea of the classes themselves? "It has weapon techniques"... well, yeah, it does... but I gotta say, this "summing up" of the classes shows very little depth of understanding or appreciation of the art itself... how long have you studied with them? And what is the other Koryu Jujutsu Ryu-ha you're studying, if this is one, and you train in "one or two"? Well, without getting into the recent re-structuring of the Ryu and it's methods themselves, there is more to it than that... Yes... but I also feel that there was more sought than just a simple "yes/no" answer... Now, this I feel is an unfair assessment... but we'll get to that. Do you understand what the kata are teaching, though? Or how? Yeah... it looks like you don't. Kata teach through specific methods, but what they teach are tactics and principles. Expecting things to go exactly the way they're presented in kata form is unrealistic... and that's as true now as it was then. Speaking from my experience, which includes training with the Melbourne branch of Hontai Yoshin Ryu a number of times, as well as training in and teaching it's sister school of Hontai Takagi Yoshin Ryu, combined with a number of discussions with the Hontai Yoshin Ryu instructor here about our different branches (in weaponry and Jujutsu), I can think of a number of parts of the training that do give responses and answers (physically and in the form of principles) to each of the circumstances you present. But here's the thing. The only way they become geared towards modern self defence is if the instructor has understanding of such things, and has that as a focus... which isn't necessarily what is found in the Koryu world (although, honestly, such a pragmatic approach might not be as rare as you might think). The specific actions (seen in the kata) might be similar, or vastly different, to the specific actions in modern situations... and the tactics shown might be valid, or illegal, depending on the ones present and the legal situation you find yourself in. The aforementioned Melbourne Hontai Yoshin Ryu instructor is actually a big believer in the usage of Hontai Yoshin Ryu for modern self defence, for example. With regards to the mention of randori within Hontai Yoshin Ryu, it's present as a training method, at least here in Melbourne, but not necessarily one that's used in the early stages of training, as it's used to reinforce the training, rather than just randomly see what you do... that can turn too much into a sparring match. But, to address the OP, as noted, you've asked a few times recently about traditional, and semi-traditional systems, in regard to self defence.... and to that end, I'd repeat the question I asked on your "Question" thread...
Right but thats not the time to find out that what you were learning for self defence was actually usefull in its current form. i mean why is it easier for me to sum up boxing or judo without having to resort to vague explanations about how it might work in the modern world if adapted. But regardless we have arrived at the same point we started at by your explanation that it's only good for self defence if hte instructor has a focus on self defence. Which they don't soooo. Is it good for self defence? No
I'm a little late to the party on this issue, but I do have a couple of things to add. At the heart of the original question, Counter Assault is correct. HYR is NOT a good choice for if you're looking for a self defence art. I studied HYR for about 4 or so years a while ago, and while I have actively used its techniques extremely successfully for self defence against assault, I wouldn't categorise this as a self-defence focused art, and the most effective self defence components of it are more quickly learned in judo and other defence systems. The main focus is technical precision in the movements which, over a long period of time, pay off, but the path to street-effectiveness is a long one as there is a lot of additional work to be done (including traditional weapons etc). There is 'live' sparring - generally against more than one assailant, but the by comparison on this is comparatively minimal.
