Home of Pencak Silat

Discussion in 'Silat' started by Van Zandt, Jun 20, 2008.

  1. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    Hi,

    My wife is Indonesian. She was born in Bandung (Java), which her mother claims is home of Pencak Silat. I know Cimande is named after the town where it was formed, but I was wondering what the link was between PS and Bandung?

    Thanks.

    Kind regards,
     
  2. Rebo Paing

    Rebo Paing Pigs and fishes ...

    Well, it was certainly a hub of silat once ... I can't be sure but back in the Pagar Betis days of Presiden Sukarno it featured in Bandung ... also is the home of some well known perguruan, but it isn't the home of pencak silat by any means.

    IMO the home of pencak silat is in the Joglosemar & Madiun areas :p

    Salam.
     
  3. Saiful Azraq

    Saiful Azraq Valued Member

    Salam hormat,

    Hmmmm... if we're being pedantic, since Pencak Silat is a relatively new term, we might ask where was the IPSI convention that decided on its use held? Maybe that place can be considered the home of Pencak Silat.

    For Malaysia, where immigration and cross-pollination has made pinning an origin down to geography difficult, most closet-silat historians regard the pre-Melaka ancient Muslim Siamese-Kedah kingdom of Ayuthaya (controversial, I know, but that's what most of them agree on) as the originator and home of Silat (not Pencak, just to differentiate).

    Yahoo... let the games begin! Who wants at me first?

    Salam persilatan,
     
  4. Rebo Paing

    Rebo Paing Pigs and fishes ...

    ... the origin of silat was when a human first picked up a rock or a stick to defend themselves against some threat ... pencak happened when they re-told the story to the rest of their group ... geographically it could have happened anywhere ... but my opinion is based on how I see and define silat ... for me (personally) there are no geographical boundaries, just definitions based on language and for me the language just happens to be based on Jawanese.
    I know that most people don't agree with this pov ... but that's kewl ... it's what makes the world go round :p.

    Peace,
    KP
     
  5. Gajah Silat

    Gajah Silat Ayo berantam!

    Slightly off topic but......did we meet you in Manchester airport about 5 years ago or so? We were talking to another 'mixed' couple and the wife was from Bandung!
     
  6. Raden-Rahmat

    Raden-Rahmat Valued Member

    is the place important???

    i think the people are because they carry the secrets of the knowledge but no the place...its just geographical...ive always judged it by the way the person does it...especially if hes a teacher...theres this way...this manner the malays have of shwoing their silat...the aesthetics is just different from anything else...
    btw...my teachers Asal Silat has some of its heritage in Sumatra...but truly ive never heard the place of origin pop up yet...but i have heard that Nusantara is the area defined as its birthplace...btw..Nusantara is the broader picture before the colonialists went on dividing nations and ppl for their won stupid reasons...maybe Nadzrin will elaborate on my somethingness
     
  7. Rebo Paing

    Rebo Paing Pigs and fishes ...

    Den Rahmat, I agree. Place is not important :).

    Define silat to your own satisfaction, and you will all find the birthplace according to your answers :D.
     
  8. Narrue

    Narrue Valued Member

    The word Silat is not that old but martial arts were around before the birth of the word Silat. If I remember correctly Silat derives from the word Silek and the word Silek derives from a word that describes lightning, sorry cant remember the word off hand but perhaps someone in this forum knows it. Silek is attributed to Dt Suri Dirajo who invented Silek a long long long time ago:)

    You can read the history: http://www.geocities.com/silektuo/hal2.htm


    EDIT: Maybe my ordering is wrong could be Silek > Kilat > Silat ????
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2008
  9. Kertas

    Kertas Valued Member

    Good day all, salam and Hormat.. I too agree that the place of origin is not that important now. Its too long time ago and everyone you ask will say a different version of silats origin. Everyone wants to be original these days. Just a note on Narues point. Has anyone heard of the arabic word silat/silatun/silah? It means a connection.
     
  10. Gajah Silat

    Gajah Silat Ayo berantam!

    Selamat sore Kertas,

    I'm certain that silat pre-dated the Arab traders to the archipelago. I would also be surprised if the etymology of the word 'silat' is Arabic as there are terms such as silek, si kilat etc. that are indigenous.

    Now I don't want to upset anyone here, but this is something I've noticed again and again. Does anyone think there is some kind of cultural self depreciation among the orang Melayu?

    Certainly with regard to silat, it seems as if everyone wants to attribute the origins elsewhere, India, China, Arab traders, Sufi saints and so on. OK trade at a cultural crossroads will indeed lead to diffusionalism but c'mon, every human society in antiquity developed fighting systems usualy out of necessity. All were humans and unless unlucky had a torso, four limbs and a head that contained a brain.:bang:

    Anyone think that, just maybe, the peoples of the archipelago might just have figured out how to fight by themselves?
     
  11. Kertas

    Kertas Valued Member

    I most certainly agree Gajah. I think the malay people had brains of their own to develop their unique way of fighting etc. I just asked a question about the arabic word since the malayu language has incorporated many arabic words. Besides, the word does sound similar anyway.
     
  12. Rebo Paing

    Rebo Paing Pigs and fishes ...

    I agree with Pakde.
    I feel the use of the term silat has been happening in my family long before IPSI and PERSILAT were even a gleam in anyone's eye I think. Although the emphasis seemed to be on pencak, unlike common definitions that seem to be around these days, pencak did not have the seni connotations when used by my Eyangs .. pencak was fighting, but the word silat was re-inforcement.
    To me pencak means the exact same as silat.

    Salams,
    KP
     
  13. Narrue

    Narrue Valued Member

    100% Silat is of SE Asian origin, at later dates philosophic content was added from other origins but the martial arts of Silat is from Indonesia. There are people who in modern times are trying to twist its origin, I once had the pleasure of listening to a man lecture me on how Silat was derived from the movements of Muslims washing themselves in a mosque before prayer:rolleyes:
     
  14. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    WOW! Thanks for the great informative replies everyone. Certainly gives me so info to go back to the mother-in-law (she isn't all THAT much of a dragon :) ). I'll dig around a bit more and find out more about her lineage (her family are native Bandung-ers, and have an extensive lineage in that art).

    Unfortunately I don't think it was me you met in Manchester airport, I've only been married to my wife for 2 years!

    Thanks again everyone :D
     
  15. Kertas

    Kertas Valued Member

    Careful there Superfoot, you dont know yet what you might be dealing with. Mother in laws could turn into terrible Monster in laws, and may turn you into an Outlaw too :p

    Just joking, keep up the research and train well brother
     
  16. Gajah Silat

    Gajah Silat Ayo berantam!

    There must be another 'Bandung' couple in Lancashire then!

    Ever been tempted to train with the relatives in Indo? Mind you it took a few years before I was trusted with such things....and then it was all very clandestine:)
     
  17. Jebat

    Jebat Valued Member


    And you think people weren't devided already? So before the European colonialists came there was peace and everybody was together?
    So no Kings and Sultans where fighting wars and colonializing each other, enslaving each other? No tribes where killing each other and cutting each other's heads off for over land and property? Every religion change was done in peace? lol......
    Another thing to think about: on how many occassions do you think Europeans have been colonized and devided by other people or countries. The list is endless.
    Ah, and (especially in Asia) every dictatorial ruler always becomes a national hero and 'great leader' after he is long gone, forgetting the horrible things he did. Just a matter of time......
    Devided..... That is funny.........
     
  18. Rebo Paing

    Rebo Paing Pigs and fishes ...

    Rahayu DiMas Mohd Nadzrin Wahab,
    I'm curious about this Silat Tua on Silat Melayu:The Blog, which also talks about Senjata Bangsa Jawi. Are you aware that Jawi is kromo inggil for Jawa ... Nigel writes that it originates from Pattani in Thailand, but I wonder does Silat Tua originate from Jawa? If not, why else would Silat Tua be using senjata bongso Jawi? (FYI, from an ethnic perspective the Sundanese are not considered as Jawanese).
    I understand that after the Diponegoro War was lost (1825 - 1830), some of R. Diponegoro's followers fled to Malaysia, while others re-established in remote areas (for those days) in Jawa (my ancestors included) and in Sulawesi.
    I have also found an interesting and very insightful article about Silat Tua (not to be confused with Silek Tuo which is Minang) on Nigel Sutton's site. Actually the article describes in a nutshell what silat is and what it is not.

    :topic: There is a growing nucleus of astute and extremely well informed article writers on the Internet who perform a great service for Silat. Along with Babak O'ong Maryono, both yourself and Nigel Sutton fall into this category, if I may say so.

    Wassalam,
    Krisno
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2008
  19. Rebo Paing

    Rebo Paing Pigs and fishes ...

    :topic:Yes, what you say has some truth, but cultural groups have existed relatively unchanged for hundreds of years in the region and one must consider that cultural groups have the human rights to find there own way through the turmoil of life. My own family have an unbroken line of inhabiting our place for over 200 years to the present day and beyond that we have a feudal history encompassing and originating from different kingdoms in Central & East Jawa.
    With a penjajah (a coloniser) originating far removed from the common cultural mix of Nusantara archipelago, the privilige to attain advancement for our culture and people was totally denied, remembering that the European too has a common cultural mix, which identifies as European.

    Therefore from the perspective of cultural rights as well as the removing of material wealth from the archipelago, Den Rahmat (who's forebears were exiled) is totally correct.

    Salam,
    KP
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2008
  20. Saiful Azraq

    Saiful Azraq Valued Member

    Salam hormat all,

    Narrue
    "If I remember correctly Silat derives from the word Silek and the word Silek derives from a word that describes lightning, sorry cant remember the word off hand but perhaps someone in this forum knows it. Silek is attributed to Dt Suri Dirajo who invented Silek a long long long time ago"

    The traditionally popular origins for the word is Ilat or Elat (evasion by trickery), Si Kilat (the one who is lightning fast) which later became Silat, Solat (Muslim prayer) and Silsilah (spiritual lineage to Rasulullah [Peace Be Upon Him]).

    Linguistics is not my field, but it seems to me that Silek is just the Minang pronunciation for Silat. It would make for an interesting discussion. Any ideas?

    To answer Kertas's question, yes, there is a theory among northern Malaysian style silat that silat comes from the word Silsilah. According to Ustaz Ahmad Che Din of Silat Abjad, it is claimed that when Islam came to Fatani, the Sheikhs saw the locals practising a martial art called Gawang (a.k.a Gayung, Gayang, Gayuang in other regions of Nusantara).

    This included unIslamic spiritual practises. Once they reverted to Islam and returned to the silsilah (lineage) of Rasulullah PBUH, the art was renamed to Silat, in commemoration of the change.

    Gajah Silat
    Now I don't want to upset anyone here, but this is something I've noticed again and again. Does anyone think there is some kind of cultural self depreciation among the orang Melayu?

    Silat as a mature concept originated from Nusantara. This is undeniable, but much of the peoples who interacted culturally with other people were traders and politicians. Only those styles that were purposefully protected or shielded from the outside world had no opportunity to absorb other influences.

    The vocal styles that you see on the internet, in books and the side of the street are these acculturated styles, while the ones you don't see, you don't hear of and one in particular, runs a small school from his home and has resisted my best efforts to interview him for the last two years.

    Narrue
    "There are people who in modern times are trying to twist its origin, I once had the pleasure of listening to a man lecture me on how Silat was derived from the movements of Muslims washing themselves in a mosque before prayer"

    It bears some looking into. In my experience, many of these stories have no real basis, other than a desire to have an Islamic origin. But some have very compelling evidence.

    One, in particular is Silat Kalimah, which is based off Salat, the Muslim prayer and a Wushu style in Henan, China called Tan Ping Kong (Kettle Style) which is based off the Wudhu (ritual ablution before prayer). The kettle was used to pour water on the Muslim's limbs for ablution.

    Walang Kadung
    "I'm curious about this Silat Tua on Silat Melayu:The Blog, which also talks about Senjata Bangsa Jawi. Are you aware that Jawi is kromo inggil for Jawa"

    Senjata Bangsa Jawi is the title for the next book in the Silat Tua series and is probably a newly coined term, not an old one. The following excerpt from Hamdan Abdul Rahman’s book “Panduan Menulis dan Mengeja Jawi” (publisher – Dewan Bahasa dan Pustaka 1999) is a possible origin for the word Jawi:

    "It has been deemed by Allah that the largest ethnic group inhabiting the land known as Melayu be the Javanese. It is these same Javanese that in times gone by formed the largest Malay group in the Arab lands. The result is that Arabs will call all those of tanned skin from the Malay world ‘Javanese’.

    Moreover, all that is associated with those from Malay is regarded as ‘Jawi’. The people are known as ‘Jawi’, the land is known as the land of ‘Jawi’ and their language is named ‘Jawi’ – and the writing system that is used in literature is the ‘Jawi’ script. Islamic works that are translated into the Malay language, especially since the 17th century, have recorded that the author had received a decree from the king, scholars or elders, that the writings be translated into Jawi; not Bahasa Melayu. From such instructions, ‘Jawi’ started to be used as the name of the entire land that is ‘Malay’, then the name of the language, and now also the name of the writing”


    Thus, the Melayu in Malaysia accept that identification, that they are what the Arabs named Banu Jawi. I don't know if Guru Zainal and Nigel chose that word out of custom or they really did mean to refer to Jawa.

    However, the nominally accepted explanation for the origins of Silat in Siam-Fatani (as expounded upon by Pendeta Anwar Wahab of Seni Gayung Fatani Malaysia) is that it was transplanted by Kuching Siam to Sumatera where it was developed by Datuk Suri Diraja and brought back to Fatani soon after to continue development. The cross-pollination between Kedah, Acheh and the rest of Sumatera gave these Silat variants a similar look with similar terminology and pedagogy, which indirectly answers your next concern: "I have also found an interesting and very insightful article about Silat Tua (not to be confused with Silek Tuo which is Minang) on Nigel Sutton's site."

    I wonder if this is the same as what this website is saying (as posted by Narrue):
    "Of the science of gayuang belonged to Dt. Suri Dirajo and its combination with the three sort of Silek above, was created a type of Silek varied from self-defence from Tanah Basa (the Basic Land) [better translated as Mainland-Nadzrin]. Caught this sort of Silek was so called Silek Langkah Tigo (three steps Silek) or Silek Usali than was named Silek Tuo, basically the main source was Gayuang or most well known with the target "Sajangka Duo Jari"

    I appreciate your comments. Cikgu Nigel is one of my foremost mentors and friends. I admit that Guru Zainal and Cikgu Nigel did an admirable job of putting the Silat Tua: The Malay Dance of Life book together and it was a learning experience to be involved in the book, however small. I shall pass on your compliments to him, if he hasn't already read them here.

    Thank you for your knowledge Pak Krisno. I pray that this relationship continues further, far away from the sneers, jeers and misconceptions of those uninformed. May Allah protect us from such qualities.

    Salam persilatan daripada adikmu di Malaysia,
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2008

Share This Page