Hock Hochhein's Ground Fighting DVD

Discussion in 'Self Defence' started by Bri Thai, Feb 10, 2005.

  1. Bri Thai

    Bri Thai New Member

    Hand Stick Knife and Gun Survival Ground Fighting

    Introduction

    Survival Ground Fighting is a 3 DVD set of instructional material from Hock Hochhein. The techniques in it are designed for real world training, and actively discourage any sporting application. I’m looking at the package with very little weapons training whatsoever, so that must be taken into account when my views are read.

    Production Quality

    This is a recording of a seminar. Hock is giving a class in a training area, and the camera operative is walking around, filming the event. He does a pretty good job, and is careful to ensure that you can see what is going on. The sound quality is also good.

    The DVD is heavily edited; meaning that Hock shows his technique in detail (he also changes angles to ensure that everyone can see), and then there is limited screening of the students’ efforts. Why spend time showing many different people try to perform a technique, when the guy training them can, with the help of a playback button, show you countless times?

    The entire set is long….. Really long, being over 6 hours in length.. So this is not your basic 60-90 minute package (hence the length of this review). There is an option at the beginning of each disc to choose which segment of it that you want to start from, avoiding the need to fast forward a long time in order to find the scenes you want to work on.

    Hock is an enthusiastic and charismatic instructor, and his manner helps keep you interested during the relatively long presentations. In fact, if he ever falls on hard times in the Fight Training business, he could make good money as a Jack Nicholson impersonator…… To me the resemblance in appearance and voice is striking. Throughout the set he comes out with some great quotes, many of which will be included here.

    Basic Principles

    This package is about fighting on and from the ground, whether unarmed, with sticks, knives or guns. I’m reviewing the package chronologically (as it was shown). It may help you to note that he started off showing unarmed techniques, and then moved on to stick, knife and then gun. But also note that many of the techniques and principles behind them remain the same, regardless of what may or may not be in your hand. So much of what is written in the early sections will transfer to the rest.

    This review is not meant to assist in the instruction of these techniques, but I will be outlining some of the basic principles of what I saw. Hopefully this will assist the reader in deciding whether or not they want to investigate Hock’s materials further.

    a) Unarmed

    Hock outlines the four ways in which a fight can go to the floor. Very basically, they are: -

    Tripped/pushed
    Punched/struck
    Pulled (accidentally or on purpose)
    Tackled.

    He often mentions how the untrained but determined attacker goes about thing, and calls him the “wild man”. This is important to me, as a great many fight trainers merely teach their students how to fight people from the same art. Hock has identified this flaw, and opens his work to cover responses to what may really happen on the street rather than what does happen in a training hall. He even incorporates some of the things that a wild man may do as “if it works so good for them, why don’t we do it?”

    Hock is at great pains to emphasise that nothing he teaches is particularly new. He doesn’t claim credit for any of it – “Everything is on an Egyptian Hieroglyphic. No one owns any of this”. He is also consistent in his disdain of what he calls the “Sport Cancer” – meaning that sporting applications can often put you in more danger than your opponent in a real fight.

    I have studied what could be called unarmed sport grappling quite closely, and feel reasonably competent in that arena. I know for a fact what I can and can’t do to someone there, but also knew in the back of my mind that some of what I was taught seemed nonsensical for the street. He outlines his 11 positions for you (in relation to your opponent) in ground fighting. Yes, the basic BJJ positions are there to an extent, but he has other options that I had never really identified before. For example, being in a Judo/BJJ style side mount is documented in his numbering system. But he also has a position at “12 o clock”, where you are near the top of his head and not near his body at all – totally controlling/damaging his crucial head, neck and face area whilst he has almost no access to you whatsoever.

    Of course many sports grapplers would dismiss the eye gouge. They say that they also could apply it. But Hock calls them “big talk little do” people. Merely saying that you could do it is not the same as training it. And if you don’t actively train it, it won’t happen when you need it. And, going on a deeper level, he doesn’t even teach a control position that could easily be defended by an eye attack. They may be great for the mat, but they’re not so great without the protective barrier of rules. Hock intends to fight like this - “Cheat first. Cheat in the middle. Cheat at the end”.

    An example is outlined here. Most grapplers know the turnover from being mounted - bridging and rolling, ending up in his guard. Hock’s looks a little similar but, of course, he is using that eye attack to get the guy over. However, an important difference is this. Hock doesn’t follow the guy all the way over. He doesn’t end up in the guard (which can be defended by eye attacks). He disengages in mid turnover, and ends up firing stomp kicks at the guy.

    He outlined some kicking from the floor drills, with a partner providing a pad for impact. Some looked good, but I couldn’t always see the power in some of these kicks and, also, the pad was occasionally presented in such a way that I couldn’t understand what the target in real life should actually be. He emphasises getting back to your feet safely, again incorporating drills to make sure that this happens. Other moves, which I found hard to accept, involved a grounded fighter tripping his opponent. I did wonder if a fast moving and determined attacker could really be caught out this way with any certainty.

    There was also a fluid sensitivity drill – “Block, Pass and Pin”, where the fighters fluidly moved their limbs seeking opportunities to strike. Once again I have not been able to appreciate the value in these things. You can certainly see the JKD influence though, and I am aware that millions of others disagree with me.

    Hock goes onto outline some techniques for handcuffing. These were refreshing to me. I have also been trained in handcuffing, but the moves I was taught involved the “attacker” providing ridiculously telegraphed grabs, and then I’d have to lock the wrist in a very specific way which varied, depending on the hand and grip used. It was so fine motor based that you were even supposed to be able to dictate which side the keyhole of the cuffs would be on at the end. Hock’s stuff bypassed this trash. He uses other methods (i.e. talking or fighting) to get the guy in the appropriate position, and then uses basic leverage and pain to get the cuffs on. And he only worries about the keyhole back at the police station.

    b) Sticks

    Apart from a few Kali/JKD drills and an awful course in the nightstick, my own knowledge of stick fighting is poor. So interpret what I put with that in mind. However, of course, others with poor knowledge may be considering buying the DVD, so maybe my view is more important than an expert?

    He identifies 6 basic positions from where the stick can be used – stick forwards, neutral, backwards and working from the knees, the back and from on your side. Many of the actual techniques are done from any of these positions.

    Similar themes form the unarmed section return, like the block/pass/pin drill, and safely getting to your feet.

    He goes to the extent of training for situations when things have gone wrong. This is rare in my experience. For example, most arts teach you how to hit someone. Many also teach you how to avoid being hit. Hock does all this, but also teaches responses from when you have actually been hit. Surely this is a more realistic approach to take. Any fight that lasts longer than a second or two will result in you taking a blow or two at least.

    I remember being impressed by my grappling instructor. He could move me around without using his hands, as he knew that I would be holding onto him. Hock also utilises the same theory. He doesn’t mind being grabbed, as then his opponent’s hands are busy but without causing any real harm, leaving you free to do what you need to do.

    He showed a variety of trips and takedowns with the stick. Personally I’m not too sure about them (like the other takedowns), and my own instinct would be to just hit the opponent with it until he hit the floor all by himself.

    As an aside, Hock makes his opinion of the head butt clear. Don’t do it. He feels that since our head is our control centre, why risk it by impacting it with the opponent? He has concerns over the long-term damage also. I reckon that its use is a personal choice, but Hock puts a good case forwards against it.

    He speaks of the technique, then the counter, then the counter to the counter etc. You can go to numerous levels of course. I can see the value of it in one way, but worry that people may see close in fighting as a game of chess. Maybe it is for generals with armies but, for me, things move too fast in a one on one to be concerned with such things.

    It is with the stick work that I first got an appreciation of what I call his “creative movement” (my term). He outlines various positions where your force is pitted against the attackers, and then shows how a change in direction of your force can make all the difference. This is hard to put into words and describe the actual techniques, but in a general sense he teaches how to go around brick walls rather than try to smash through them.

    He also stayed clear of the stick twirling that I had some experience in. When training JKD I used to wonder why I was training to look cool against thin air, as the whole feel would be different if these sticks were actually hitting something.

    c) Knife

    He outlines the six basic knife positions and, you’ve guessed it they are the same as those for the stick. He also briefly looks at different grips. This is a crash course in ground knife-work, though, so some previous knowledge would be an advantage. My own knowledge level is along the lines of “hold tight, scream and stab the ****er”, so my views are those of the beginner.

    He decries those who try to build knife fighting on a foundation of sports grappling structure as, in his words, the knife destroys that foundation. He introduced his label of “In the clutches of”, where both combatants each have hold of their weapon carrying hand. These types of situations are not well covered by other knife fighting packages, yet this is a common occurrence.

    Again, many of the drills are the same as the stick drills, and he trains what you can do when things are going wrong (including getting out of the rear naked strangle). An delicious bit of nastiness (in the nicest possible way) comes from the concept of trying to stab the opponent in places that he can actually see – as the sight of his own wounds will have far more effect on him than those he cannot see (sorry for calling you Jack Nicholson… honest I am…..).

    He has a set of techniques called the “Private Ryan Series”, with reference to the scene in the film where one guy managed to struggle with and then kill another. Again he introduces some excellent creative movement to enhance his own power and undermine his opponents. And he does not want you to learn specific moves to counter the exact moves of your opponent. He is providing a large range of alternatives, and wants you to think for yourself, applying whatever is best in the circumstances at the time.

    d) Gun

    I know almost zero about gun fighting. It was all totally new to me. He had the students practising dropping to one knee to fire, and then getting back up, all in a tactical fashion. He even had them going to a full prone position, paying special attention on providing the smallest target possible. Once again he trained on his side and on his back also, and once again he trains for the worst case scenario – “if you’re still conscious after being shot, your chances of survival are good”. So he aims to keep shooting back no matter what. He even thinks that misses count, as the fact the guy is under fire will have him desperate to keep his head down instead of attacking.

    Special attention is paid to avoiding shooting yourself. In all these weird and wonderful positions it is a real possibility if the risk has not been identified and dealt with – “Just because your sites are clear, it doesn’t mean that your muzzle is clear”.

    Some of the candidates had guns that shot pellets. He would put them under pressure by throwing things at them whilst they tried to shoot, as even I know that training on a range is nothing like training in a scenario where things are coming back at you.

    I’m sure many people in the gun owning community will have their own ideas of how best to use their weapons. I don’t know enough about it to see whether or not Hock’s stuff is good or bad – but it seemed to make sense and followed the basic principles in his other weapons training.

    Overall

    Throughout the DVD series I was impressed by his emphasis on learning to hit from situations where you are already hit yourself. I liked the fact that he used the same basic movements no matter what weapon was in his hand. I was particularly impressed by the lateral thinking in the moves, the creative movement that would help you go around a problem instead of trying to battle straight through it. I think he provides lots of tricks for you to choose from. No, you cannot hope to be able to learn and apply them all. But some will register for you and will help you get the upper had.

    Things I didn’t like included some of the drills, and some of the more complex techniques (spinning around and tripping someone etc.).

    I have heard many people criticise Hock Hochhein, saying that his “syllabus is too big” and that “it is not Combatives” etc. etc. Personally I rather think that the whole attack on him is just a red herring. For me the question is this – Are their things here that I can take and use or not? And the answer is an unequivocal “Yes.”

    I enjoyed the series and there are certainly things in there that I may well use myself. I don’t think Hock Hochhein will be standing in for Jack Nicholson just yet
     

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