I enjoyed that, thanks for posting. I think we have many similar ideas. I did notice though that on the spin kick you tend to turn the leading foot, then turn and kick, rather than spin on the ball of the leading foot and kick. In the style I do we practice a spin rather than turning the foot then spinning, just as the MMA fighter seems to do. I say, "we practice" because after many years I'm still trying to get it right Mitch
I can only speak from my experience in Hapkido under my Grandmaster. Jung Hwan Park was a student under Grandmaster Choi. We are one of the few styles of Hapkido that do not follow the line of Grandmaster Ji. I am not saying that GM Ji system is better or worse, just that my GM was directly under Choi, Young Sool and GM Ji added a lot of kicks that are in most HKD systems today. I have never practiced ITF Taekwondo and I really do not know much about that system other than the forms look better than our WTF style poomse. We keep our kicks pretty simple in my line of HKD. The only three kicks that our TKD and HKD systems share are the front kick, side kick and back kick. Those three are thrown almost the same with the exception that the side kick is thrown to the thigh or knee in HKD and to the mid section in TKD. Our TKD has spin heel kick, axe kick, round house (with instep), crescent kicks (in to out and out to in), spinning round kick, double up kicks, just to name a few. Our Hapkido has round kick (with ball of the foot), inverted side kick, twist kick. The kicks are usually thrown at the lower stomach or below. Of course, there are always exceptions. Our system of TKD is olympic style and I have seen the kicks get flashier over the years since the early 80's. It is 80% sport and 20% self-defense. I mainly teach kids that system. Our HKD is 100% self-defense. I find it difficult to believe that TKD took its kicks from HKD or even vice versa. Both arts were developed independently in the early 1950's. HKD's parent art was Daitō-ryū Aiki-jūjutsu and TKD from the different Korean Kwans which the majority of those Kwans being based from Karate systems. Gen. Hi Choi was a Shotokan Karate black belt. He was the one that united the Kwans in 1954ish.
actually, there were many tkd people in korea who had different levels of hkd training in the 60's and 70s, if you look at bios of some u.s. instructors, including your instructor. it's not hard to imagine that some hkd instructors put kicks into tkd at some point. As you pointed out, Gen Choi was a Shotokan black belt: there weren't really any spin kicks in earlier shotokan, as it's a very linear short range style from what i've encountered before the tournament circuit became popular in na. so where did the spinning and circular kicks come from? also, i don't personally believe that ji han jae developed the spinning kick, as other early pioneers mentioned kim as developing the kicks. i'm not sure what you mean by twisting kick, which sounds interesting, but the closest kick i've seen to a roundhouse kick with the ball of the foot is a short range circular kick, which can sometimes be used as a sweep, but i've never heard it called a roundhouse. of course, we could be talking about the same thing now that i think about it, as there aren't a lot of english names for a whole lot of hkd kicks.
I'm sure there was a lot of cross pollination with those two arts later on and even in the 1950's. my GM was a black belt in Judo as well as other Hapkidoin. But my point was the two arts were "founded" by two different "Masters" from two different arts. As I think about it, when I first started TKD; the kicks I learned were: step side kick, front kick, round house with the ball, back kick and axe kick. My Master at the time was Master Lee. The reason we hit with the ball of the foot is because in the early 80's the hogu were bamboo. It was not until the late mid-80's that we started hitting to the body with the instep. The kicks from what I understood came from taekkyeon, only the hand techniques of Gen Choi were Shotokan. The twist kick is almost like an inverted round kick hitting with the instep. Usually to the thigh. It can be used as a sweep.
If you had ever studied taekkyeon you would have noticed a HUGE difference between their kicks and the kicks of TKD and HKD. In taekkyeon every kick is actually a push, very different from the other two arts.
I have never trained in Taekkyeon but I have seen videos. Some of the kicks in this clip look like modern Taekwondo kicks (double up round kicks & spin heel kicks). http://youtu.be/4k0VnarlVQA If the spinning and flashy kicks did not come from Taekkyeon, where do you think they came from? Did they just evolve over the years? That is a possibility.
I don't think they come from any place in particular. Where did the front and side kick come from? I don't think that you can pinpoint any kick coming from a particular martial art. Maybe if you develop a jumping low double spin kick, you can claim it as your own invention I do think that a lot of new kicks emerged in the last century, but not just in one place. Again, a lot of mixing and copying took place. Which makes it hard if not impossible to say where a certain kick originated. Don't forget that for a long time (like until the start of the 20th century) when you practiced martial arts, you were practicing with weapons. Unarmed combat was seen as a way to train the body (like tkd is used in the korean army these days). There was no time for jumping double kicks, you would better devote your time to bettering your sword skills. Already in the 18th and 19th century swords, spears, etc. had lost their meaning as weapons of combat on the battle field anyway. (in Europe even sooner) It isn't until the early 20th century that unarmed combat begins to take a more important role than many of the armed arts. Because personal self defence became more popular, not only as a way to defend yourself but also as a way of physical education. (judo) In the last few decades we have also seen the emerge of martial arts just for fun and for show. Kicks and tricks that don't make any sense at all when it comes to practical self defence, but are entertaining and fun to do (especially the younger crowd seems to love it).
In this video you can see a quick overview of the kicks taught in our school. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRuk_YHi0L0"]Chongmukwan kicks (발차기) - YouTube[/ame]
Thanks Klaas for putting a big old smile on my face! I love it - just a very quick demo of the kicks (with English and Korean terms) with no series of slow motion or repeated motions... that was very nice! Informative and well done!
You are welcome. Which kicks do they teach in your school? I also noticed that the Korean names can differ quite a bit depending on which school you visit. Here is a list of the kicks shown in the video 뒤꿈치 차올리기 - heel high kick 뒤꿈치 차내리기 - heel down kick 족도 차올리기 - knife edge foot kick up 족도 차내리기 - knife edge foot kick down 안다리 차기 - inside kick 바깥다리 차기 - outside kick 족도 차넣기 - knife edge push kick 뒷꿈치로앞차지르기 - heel push kick 족기 지르기 - instep kick 앞차기 - front kick 발끝(등) 찌기 - roundhouse kick 바깥 발끝(등) 찌기 - slap kick 옆자기 - side kick 옆차올리기 - high side kick 돌아 옆차기 - spinning back side kick 성문 차기 - sweep kick 뒤꿈치 차돌리기 - heel outside kick 허벅지 차기 - heel inside kick 뒤차기 - back kick (서서)돌려차기 - spinning heel kick 앉아 돌려차기 - low spinning heel kick 공중 돌려차기 - jumping spinning kick 이단옆차기 - flying side kick 양발 벌려 차기 - split kick 두발모아차기 - double kick 가위차기 - X-kick 360도 차기/턴발질 - wheel kick
i was taught to throw roundhouse kicks similar to how klaas demonstrated. if you do it slowly, it almost looks as if the knee comes up first, then everything kind of turns into it. i always kept the kicks low (per our school proprietor (ks hyun)); of course, some guys wanted to show off and kick for the head kind of stuff. i wasn't one of them, lol. depending on who the main instructor at the school was, there could be a more tkd or kyukushin focus on some kicking techniques. i tended to stay toward the more hanpul-influenced hkd techniques. as opposed to what? 90%?
Here is a list of the kicks shown in the video 뒤꿈치 차내리기 - heel down kick (axe kick) (not in the Combat Hapkido curriculum but I do teach it at the school) 안다리 차기 - inside kick (inside crescent kick) 바깥다리 차기 - outside kick (outside crescent kick) 뒷꿈치로앞차지르기 - heel push kick (not in the Combat Hapkido curriculum but I do teach it at the school) 족기 지르기 - instep kick 앞차기 - front kick 발끝(등) 찌기 - roundhouse kick 바깥 발끝(등) 찌기 - slap kick 옆자기 - side kick 옆차올리기 - high side kick (although we normally don't use them 'high') 돌아 옆차기 - spinning back side kick 성문 차기 - sweep kick (scoop kick) 뒤꿈치 차돌리기 - heel outside kick (not in the Combat Hapkido curriculum but I do teach it at the school) 허벅지 차기 - heel inside kick 뒤차기 - back kick (서서)돌려차기 - spinning heel kick (not in the Combat Hapkido curriculum but I do teach it at the school) 앉아 돌려차기 - low spinning heel kick (not in the Combat Hapkido curriculum but I do teach it at the school) These are not in the Combat Hapkido curriculum but I have learned them: As always! This is a great list for people who would like a "good" list of terms (and can easily see from the video what each one is)
I do not know if its because my masters were Taekwondo as well as Hapkido but going through the ranks I saw very few of those kicks in our Hapkido. In Taekwondo we had most of those kicks however. I enjoyed the video. Thank you for sharing.
klassb,. i liked your students performing the spin kicks and the wheel kicks. i think your red belt has a lot of potential and has a great sense of timing as well. also, we do variations of the sweep kick and the heel kicks that you showed. it's nice to see hkd schools demo'ing it on youtube. thanks for sharing.
We have two more kicks that we call sweep kicks. One is like the swap kick but you kick with the ball of the foot and to the inside of the knee. The second one is a bit more difficult to explain. With your foot in side kick position you hit your opponent's shin in a outside/inside movement. Like in most HKD schools we promote low kicking when it comes to actual self defence. All the funny and jumping kicks are just for fun.
