History of Korean MA

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by klaasb, Mar 3, 2009.

  1. antilie

    antilie Valued Member

    Your answer about the Korea Operation Army?

    Whenever they insist a claim by the Chinese government and a claim by Comfort women, you should think about the contents being changed.

    In the modern history, it is only Korea force to have performed the construction and the management of the "Comfort women" institution by the armed forces directly. (For U.S.A.)

    The Korean thought is egocentric.

    You will think as of the present.

    For the Japanese earthquake damage, Japan has much support from the world.
    The Japanese thanks you for it very much. Thank you.

    Korea dispatched five search parties to Japan without getting the consent of the Japanese Government.
    About it, I do not criticize it.

    However, Korea was going to support the distinction with it.
    For "Japanese peace and order maintenance, Korea dispatches 2,000 Korea marines"

    Peace and order maintenance in Japan is work of the Japanese police. It is not work of Korea force.

    The lie history of the Korean traditional martial art is a historical fact in Korea so that you assume the lie testimony of the Korean charity dame a historical fact.

    Many amateur martial artists raise false tradition and career in the world and conduct a a martial art business.
    Korea does the lie at a national level.

    The history of the taekwondo that Korea submitted to IOC as for the reason why taekwondo was excluded by the medal sport of the Olympics and quantity of the competition population as for the lie is because was it.

    In Korean historical materials, the Korea tradition martial arts are only bows.
    Korean Silm is not recognized as a traditional martial art in Korea.
    Silm does not have the protection from the government, too.

    Silm seems to have been still performed in Korea from old days.
    However, Korea government and Korean most are totally not interested in it.
  2. Bruce W Sims

    Bruce W Sims Banned Banned

    Continuing to respond to your uninformed statements and attempts to rationalize Japan's crimes can serve no useful purpose. I have nothing more to say to you.

  3. antilie

    antilie Valued Member

    Japan is a criminal for the white man who lost a colony in Asia.
    They instilled Japan in the world as a criminal by their strategy.

    Germany forced the responsibility on Nazi.
    If Japan is a criminal, Germany and Italy are criminals.

    I want to ask you.
    Was the colonialism by the white man a right act?

    It is only China and Korea to call Japan a criminal in Asia.
  4. SeongIn

    SeongIn Banned Banned

    Stop trying to shift blame elsewhere and stop changing history.
  5. klaasb

    klaasb ....

    You can't blame people of today for the acts of people of yesterday.
    So NO, we don't blame you personally for the acts of your forefathers. Just as I don't blame the Germans of today for the acts of Hitler.
    However if there are modern Germans who deny that the holocaust took place, I can blame them for that. Denying the holocaust is a criminal offense in many countries.

    Again NO, you are not a criminal, nor is Japan a criminal, for the acts committed 100 years ago.
  6. Bruce W Sims

    Bruce W Sims Banned Banned

    I think there is a kind of "redeeming value" to hearing a person go on like this, though you may not agree and probably neither of us like it very much. As a history teacher I have often found myself musing about terrible times in Human history and wondered what sort of thinking made such things "OK" to do. For instance, Klaas mentioned the European Holocaust, to which we could also add the Cambodian Holocaust and the genocide in Rawanda---hell, we could go back to the events in the American West during the 18th and 19th. Century, right?

    For me, the pivotal hallmark seems to be when folks stop looking at the targeted individuals as Human individuals and start using non-Human labels. For instance, here in the States it has become quite fashionable to identify people as various kinds of "terrorists" and "extremists". During WW II the enemies were "dirty japs" and "krauts". During Korea and Vietnam the enemies were "gooks", "slopes" and "dinks". In Iraq the enemies were "rag-heads" and "camel-jockies"----anything but individuals who wanted many of the same things that you and I think and dream of.

    Personally I think THAT is the downside to a discussion like this. Its too easy to get sucked into trading insults back and forth with this fellow and start using labels. Fact is, from what I can tell, this guy wants these things to be true and really doesn't care if they are or not. In other words we are talking to a person motivated not by fact but by belief and that means we will never get him to view things differently.

    I think if I were Japanese there would be some level of embarrassment or shame that my own people had come out of such a terrible part of themselves, and for such pedestrian reasons, resulting in these sorts of reckonings for the foreseeable future. FWIW.

    Best Wishes,

  7. Bruce W Sims

    Bruce W Sims Banned Banned

    KORYO Dynasty (918 to 1170):

    Arose from the fragments of the (Unified) Silla kingdom, the influence of Chinas' "Five Dynasties" and the influx of refugees from Pohai (713-926), a Manchurian state overrun by the Khitan. Issues with the KHITAN and the JURCHEN across the northern border set the military nature of the KORYO dynasty from the start. The first of three eras for this dynasty were characterized by a strong monarchy and the growth of governmental structure and attempts to separate the inter-relationships between the “scholar” and “military man” with the introduction of the KWA KUH or national civil exam (958). The attempts by Kwanjong (949-975) to reform government away from the influence of the head-rank six lineages initially fail, but, when continued by Songjong (981-997), introduced new clan influences to the monarchy such as the (Ansan) Kim and (Inchon) Yi families. Centered at its capital in KAESONG, the KORYO dynasty was characterized by a highly structured series of "orders" each with its population who inherited into each set strata and was governed at the top by the "Three Chancelleries or SAMSONG.

    Under Songjong, the military is also revamped and re-structured (919AD) to be comprised of two "Guard" units (Eung-Yang ; lit: "hawks on the wing" and Yong-ho lit: "dragons and tigers") and six "Divisions" (Jwa, Uwi, Sin-ho-wi, Hung-wi-wi, Kum-o-wi and Kam-mun-wi) each composed of a regiment of about 1000 men each and manned by professional soldiers, with allocation of land allotments used for compensation for service. Enlistments are maintained by recruitment, usually among the peasantry, and while examinations are held for civil positions, examinations for military positions will not be established until closer to the end of the dynasty under King Kongyang. Failings of the primarily infantry-focused Six Divisions against the cavalry-strong Jurchen, will cause King Sukchong (1095-1105) to create the Extraordinary Military Corps or PYOLMUBAN, as a special military force separate from the Six Divisions, and along with cavalry and infantry, a unit is heavily manned by Buddhist warrior monks, and named the "Subdue Demons Corps" or HANGMAGUN. The steady growth of landownership and commercial ventures by Buddhist monasteries as well as their places as landlords and slave-owners required that the monasteries train their monks in military arts as well as the Buddhist faith to maintain security for their holdings. Use of these warrior-monks for the campaigns by the government reinforced the relationships between the monarchy and the Buddhist faith. King Ye Jong established the KUK CHA GAM (national university) in 1109 which includes a course in MOO HAK or martial studies, but contention between scholar and military factions allowed this course of studies to decline with time.

    Source: Korea: The Mongol Invasions; W.E. Henthorne; EJ Brill, Leiden; 1963

    BTW: The following developments in Northern China during this period could not have failed to have had an impact on Korean practices of the time.

    Following the fall of the Uyghur Empire in 850AD, and during the Chinese Song Dynasty (960 to 1279AD) the HUI, emigrated from Central Asia and eventually made permanent settlements, intermingling with the various Chinese peoples. As a result Islam to spread to various parts of China. By the 13th Century, the HUI were widely scattered throughout China, but primarily in the northern regions, especially Henan , Hebei , Shangtung, and Shaanxi provinces.
    The HUI quickly absorbed Chinese WU WEI (such as Shuai Chiao or Chinese Grappling, Pao Quan, Tong Bei Quan, Liu Ho Quan, Tai Tzu Chang Quan, Ba Ji Quan, Pi Qua Quan, etc.). Eventually they developed their own unique styles of WU WEI such as Cha Quan, Hua Quan, 10 Routine Tan Tui, Liu Lu Duan Quan, Toi Quan, and Yong Chan Quan. The HUI chiefs called upon their people to learn wu shu as a "holy practice" in order to help foster discipline and bravery during their struggle for survival. Many of the HUI joined the Chinese military and had illustrious careers in it, often rising to the rank of General. Also, many HUI were fiercely loyal about supporting the various Chinese Emperors, even though the HUI were of foreign origin. After the Mongolians had taken over China, forming the Yuan Dynasty (1279-1368), many Chinese loyalists schemed to bring back the throne to China. A peasant uprising finally succeeded in uniting the Chinese people against their Mongol invaders. The rebellion was led by Zhu Yuan Zhang, who toppled the Mongolian imperial court and founded the much beloved Ming Dynasty, becoming its first emperor. Fighting with him were some of China's most famous generals (i.e., Chang Yu Chun, Hu Da Hai, Mu Ying, Lan Yu, Feng Sheng, and Ding De Xing), who were all HUI Moslem wu shu experts. Chang Yu Chan became famous for founding a spear fighting method that is still taught today, the famous "kai ping qiang fa".
    In addition, about 1116 AD., Aguda of the Jurchen (b. 1068) becomes the first emperor of the JiN Dynasty. He expands and standardizes the MOUKE System. The MOUKE System is the primary organizational structure in which a village community is assessed as 100 households. Each household provides one fighter, sword, armor and two to four horses. Ten MOUKE are taken as MENGAN (lit: "one thousand"). Aguda enlarges the MOUKE to 300 households, though the military numbers stay the same. As the Jurchen give way to the Manchu, this organizational system will become the model for the Manchu "Banner System" organized along decimal lines of 100 - 1,000 - 10,000.

    Source: Imperial China: 900 to 1800; F.W. Mote; Harvard University Press, 1999; pp 787 – 789​

    Just trying to get us back on track.
    Best Wishes,
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2011
  8. antilie

    antilie Valued Member

    Is there objective evidence to prove the fact that there was a holocaust by Japan?

    As for the European reporters who resided in Nanjing, nobody looks at the slaughter spot in those days.
    They do not hear the scream of people either.

    They heard the story from a Chinese and testify that I wrote the article.

    In China, the victims in Nanjing increased almost every year whenever I said Nanjing case.
    It finally became 760,000 people.
    As for the quantity, that's all. the double of then Nanjing inhabitants

    Of course China easily withdrew it.
  9. antilie

    antilie Valued Member

    The buck-passing is the Korean proud skill.

    At the time of Korean financial crisis, the European bank withdrew from Korea.

    The Japanese bank supported Korea till the last.
    When a Japanese bank withdrew from Korea, the Korea government cried.
    It "is Japanese responsibility to have caused a Korean economic crisis"

    For it, it was Kim Daejung to have argued (President of Chino Korea).
    "Japan is the country which supported Korea till the last"

    Alternatively, there are martial art, rocket, movie, などで, a lot of examples of the buck-passing to another person by Korea.

    When a Korean scholar and an intellectual study historical materials and pointed out a lie of the Korea government, the person is criticized socially.
  10. Bruce W Sims

    Bruce W Sims Banned Banned

    Yes... yes.... and it seems that making excuses has become a "Japanese" skill.

    In the United States we also have people who want to make it seem like our country never did bad things.

    Why don't you just accept that Japan did terrible things and learn not to do those things again?

    Its embarrassing for you to try and pretend that terrible things did not happen, or that there was a very good reason for doing such things.

    All the people who witnessed what Japan did can't be liars. All the people who saw what Japan did can't be wrong.

    Japan did terrible things and you can't pretend that it did not happen.
  11. Hyeongsa

    Hyeongsa The Duelist

    Japan was on a war path and raped an entire culture. Thankfully, there were people that were gutsy enough that continued practicing Korean martial arts, which survived to today. There are martial arts such as KONG SOO DO which is Japanese Karate with a Korean name. Is that wrong? No! We're non-Koreans practicing a Korean art, is that weird? What would be weird is if I say that KUK SOOL originated in these United States. LMAO

    There are people that lie about some of Korean martial arts, saying it wasn't influenced by anything. But there is more than enough proof saying that our form Woon Ohk Hyung is actually from a temple located in the region of ancient Koguryo and was inspired by Chinese KUNG FU practicioners!

    The simple truth is this: Korea has its martial arts, Japan has theirs, and China theirs. To debate over wether or not Japan DID do horrible things (when everyone knows they did) is just ridiculous. Systems such as: Sipalki, Taekyon, Kuk Sool, Hwarang Do, Muye 24 Ban, and others are testemants to Korean training methods, regardless of where it originated.
  12. antilie

    antilie Valued Member

    Is it a thing about Nanjing?

    How many eyewitnesses are there?

    In reality, I testify that many journalists who resided in Nanjing do not watch a battle.

    All the private citizens of Nanjing sheltered to Shanghai.

    China insisted that "Japan killed 20,000 Chinese" in a meeting in the League of Nations after Nanjing fell.
    However, the League of Nations assumes that there "is not such a fact".

    There is that Nanjing case became the topic after WW2.
    The photograph carried by NYT regards it as falsehood in U.S.A.

    1937. The journalist of NYT which was in Nanjing testifies that there was not the barbarity by Japan then.

    It is said that Tokyo trial is a farce in Asia.
    As for it, a white man made Japan a criminal one-sidedly.
  13. antilie

    antilie Valued Member

    Japan was on a war path and raped an entire culture.

    Then why is there a weak constitution dance in Korea?
    It assumed that Japan "insulted the weak" and prohibited it.

    There is much traditional culture in Taiwan where the rule by Japan is longer than Korea.

    We're non-Koreans practicing a Korean art, is that weird?

    You please study the right history.

    The Korean martial art is connected directly with money-making entirely.
    And they add the false history to take out occultness.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwNQhNQ2W80"]YouTube - Martial arts and cult 2 日本語å*—幕[/ame]

    The suspect of this video seems to teach a martial art called ONMUDO(陰陽道) now.
    It is Chinese astronomy. "the Yin Yang method=陰陽道".
    In Japan, it increased many things and developed as black art.

    It is the evidence that a Korean does not have respect for the traditional culture that use the name of the Yin Yang method (onmudo) irrelevant to a martial art for a martial art.ONMUDO now.

    In the origin of "the Yin Yang method=陰陽道", it is Chinese astronomy.

    In Japan, it increased many things and developed as black art.

    It is the evidence that a Korean does not have respect for the traditional culture that use the name of the 陰陽道=Yin Yang method (onmudo) irrelevant to a martial art for a martial art.
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2011
  14. Bruce W Sims

    Bruce W Sims Banned Banned

    Thank you for confirming what I had suspected. All thats happening here is that you are doing the same thing for Japan that some Europeans have done for Germany: that is making the arguement that atrocities never happened (IE. The Holocaust in Germnany never took place.) Well, those atrocities actually DID happen.

    Japan DID practice Biological Warfare on Chinese villages in Northern China. During those experiments they really DID dissect people while those people were still alive. The Japanese army took pictures and recorded data on these experiments. How come you don't want to look at these experiments?

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hOIpDSWySw"]Unit 731 Japanese Human Medical Experiments (1/5) - YouTube[/ame]

    Japan really DID march soldiers to their deathes after the fighting on Battaan and randomly executed stragglers. The Japanese army took pictures of these acts. How come you don't want to look at these?

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qq2a-qZpMjc"]YouTube - Remembering Bataan...segment from For Veterans Only[/ame]

    Japan really DID murder and brutalize Chinese---not just in Nanjing but in a number of other cities. How come you are not looking at the films that the Japanese army took of these crimes? The Japanese army filmed these things. How come you do you don't want to look at those films?

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJUm2lACQfQ"]YouTube - The Rape Of Nanking - Trailer[/ame]

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqH47MIpuoA"]Rape of Nanking 2: Japanese Torture Beheading Rape Burning - YouTube[/ame]

    Japanese army personnel really DID encourage people to commit suicide on Saipan and Okinawa. They encouraged people to throw themselves from cliffs by telling the people that American forces would murder and rape the people. The Japanese took pictures of these suicides for their own records. How come you don't want to look at these pictures and films?

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-G7_I4Tm5M"]YouTube - Saipan - Suicide and Banzai Cliffs[/ame]

    Japanese forces really DID attack and invade countries all over the Pacific Rim including Hawaii, Indonesia, Phillipines, Malaysia and China and mudered thousands of people doing it. The Japanese took pictures and films of what they did. How come you don't want to look at these?

    This is not the reporting of "white", western press people. These are based on the films and documents by Japanese participants who ordered, oversaw and participated in these events. How come you are not reading the military reports of your own people?
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2011
  15. antilie

    antilie Valued Member

    About the experiment on a living creature by 731, evidence is vague.

    There is not the cruelty by 731 in the dossier which U.S.A. announced.

    Soviet Union and China did communism education for a Japanese captive.
    In addition, the communist state let a captive promise to perform communism propaganda in Japan as a condition of the early return home.
    It is only China and an advice to insist on barbarity by Japan.

    The contents of the movie are included in the video which you showed.
    And, in Russia, the Soviet Union helped the race which resembled a Japanese in the Soviet Union put on clothes of Japan force for Chinese support at time of WW2 and announced the fact that made a puropaganda movie last year.
  16. usntfhkdkg

    usntfhkdkg Banned Banned

    Ya know it is well documented the brutal torture the japanese did to the Chinese, and Koreans.....genocide, etc. I am not even going to go into the inhumane treatment that Japanese military did to the P.O.W.'s of WWII. So to beautify and make a civilization an object of hero worship in my mind is just ridiculous.
  17. Bruce W Sims

    Bruce W Sims Banned Banned

    Now you are just plain wrong.

    The Japanese documented their biological experiments. The Japanese kept track of how many people they cut-up and whether they used anaesthetic. They named dates and what disease they spread and where they spread it. There was nothing vague. It was written down and the results sent back to authorities in Japan.

    The Japanese documented their atrocities in China.

    These are not films asnd pictures by others. These are films and pictures made by Japanese..

    Japanese did these things and took pictures and films of it while they did it.

    Those are not people dressed like Japanese. Those ARE Japanese.

    I see now what kind of person that you are. These things happened. You just don't want to admit to it. I see you are being very selective about which events you choose to respond.

    No matter what facts I say, you will not admit to the terrible things the Japanese did. Are all Japanese people like you? I was taught that Japanese people had a very deep sense of Honor and are very responsible people. You just seem to want to make excuses.
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2011
  18. Bruce W Sims

    Bruce W Sims Banned Banned

    I think the Japanese are a lot like any other people. If you get away from the cities and the government the people are really neat. But in the government and in the cities the people are very different and see the world differently. For instance, I don't think the typical Japanese citizen really cared about Japan setting-up the same sort of legations as the Europeans did in China. But in the government people began to debate the policy of "Subdue Korea" as far back as 1873. Ultra-nationalist elements in the Japanese government were keen to establish a "sphere of influence" in the Pacific Rim nations after the fashion of the legations established by various European nations in China. With Western nations momentarily distracted by events elsewhere, the Japanese took a pro-active role in forcing the Koreans to open their country to outside influences. (see: The KANGHWA Treaty in 1876). FWIW.

    BTW: Did you know that the Pearl Harbor attack in 1941 actually never happened? Those planes were all American planes painted to look like Japanese planes and those 3,000 or more people who were reported killed were actually abducted by aliens!! I think we can get them all back just as soon as Richard Dreyfus and Steven Speilberg can find time. :rolleyes:

    Best Wishes,

  19. klaasb

    klaasb ....

  20. antilie

    antilie Valued Member

    Are you a Chinese? Or Korean?

    About death march.
    The local person testifies after WW2 that "all captives were transferred by a train".

    You must notice it.

    A hand having a rope worn to the neck of a person tied up is Chinese cloth.

    Barbarity by Japan which allied powers insist on has many cases that grounds are poor.
    By the war, the propaganda becomes the one of the strategies.
    The white man nation justified an act of oneself by making Japan the devil.

    Why would the Asian countries criticize the Allied Forces just after WW2 if Japan really did barbarity in WW2?

    The speech of the Asian sovereign whom there is.

    On August 15, 1945, Japan and the white war were over.
    And the white war began on the day with us.
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2011

Share This Page