Hip pain with roundhouse/side/hook kicks

Discussion in 'Injuries and Prevention' started by mocochoco, Oct 22, 2012.

  1. mocochoco

    mocochoco Valued Member

    Hi,

    I have been studying Karate for about 4 months but I am having real difficulties with roundhouse / side / hook type kicks.

    The instructors are beginning to think I am just insolent because of just how badly I am failing to perform the kicks. Someone will try and explain it to me every time, I have been about 40 times, and every time I just don't seem to improve.

    I think the source of problem is that i get pain in my outer hip from hip abduction. It is a sharp pain, I feel it when I get to the edge of my ROM for this movement (see picture)

    [​IMG]

    ie when my hip is out as far as I can move it, it hurts sharply and that prevents me from moving it farther. It's not a normal 'cant stretch further' stretchy pain, it feels more like a pinching/tightness. the pain feels like its on the outside of the hip.

    So when I do a I am kicking very low (more or less at thigh height).

    The instructors try to help by holding my leg and helping me stretch. but the outer hip pain thing kicks in and limits how much I can stretch. EG if I kick right and he catches my leg, then I turn my hips over while he holds the right leg, it will start to hurt a lot once my right hip gets to its highest point in the turn. They seem surprised by this so I am guessing it is not normal.

    Sometimes when I kick the pads, its OK because the hip does not turn over so far (since the pads stop the rotation). when I kick the pads the teachers think its OK (i chose a gym where they are quick to point out any mistakes) but if I try and throw a shadow round house its LOLs all around - I cant turn the hips over in the follow through so it's a fail roundhouse.

    I try to discuss it with the teachers but it's quite hard to get across what the problem is. Also, I think they dont come across many guys with desk-jobs and stiff hips - so they don't really know what to do with it.

    It's really getting me down and is on my mind 24/7. I have been searching all over the web for weeks and really can't seem to find anything useful to guide me.

    I have tried various stretching for these kicks but I feel like they are aimed at "normal" people without the problem I am facing.

    Many thanks for reading, I appreciate any feed back at all.
     
  2. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Abductor was my first thought when I read the title of your thread.

    Do not take medical advice from an internet forum.

    Seek professional medical advice in person. You need a musculoskeletal physiotherapist/physical therapist to have a feel around.

    I would advise against letting your instructors pull your legs about, unless they have a relevant form of medical qualification.
     
  3. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    a sports physio session - best money you'll spend.
     
  4. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    If mocochoco lives in a country with free healthcare, they might be able to be referred to a physio without spending any money.

    ...though spending some money might result in better healthcare.
     
  5. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    What they said. That said, this issue (whatever it might be, anatomically speaking) probably stems from improper technique that your instructors aren't catching. Roundhouse and side kicks depend as much, if not more, on mobility of the supporting leg rather than the kicking leg. Problems in the kicking leg's hip tend to be caused by not moving the supporting leg and hip enough, which leaves the kicking hip without enough room to move, leading to pulls and impingements becauseall of the work is heaped on only one of your legs.
     
  6. sensei_dez

    sensei_dez Valued Member

    I know exactly how you feel, I had/have the exact same problem, about a year ago I started to see a chiropractor about it, being young and that it came out of nowhere I was worried it might be something big. After a few months of treatment I saw good improvement but my coverage ran out so I haven’t gone back, since then it’s flared up every now and again but I manage it, doing the stretches he prescribed.

    When I talked to one of my instructors about it she said it might be bursitis in my hip , but anyways, my advice would be to see a chiropractor, if stretching isn’t helping alone, in conjunction with adjustment and maybe laser treatment, it should help.
     
  7. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

  8. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    my issue with chiropractors is that is doesnt seem to address issues like musculoskeletal and neuro-muscular. physio tends to deal with that.

    my brother has postural issues and the biggest help to him wasnt the years of chiropractice, it was when he stopped that, started going to the gym and learning to control his lower traps and back
     
  9. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Yeah, but don't forget that physios aren't immune to quackery either; ultrasound and infrared treatment being prime examples.
     
  10. mocochoco

    mocochoco Valued Member

    Thanks a lot for the replies and advice!

    I guess going to a physio is the best thing to do then. I'm probably just making the situation worse by trying to push myself through the pain with it and should take it easy until I have had it checked out.

    I really don't think it is down to technique, we have worked a lot on my form in class and I have researched all over. I'm getting a good pivot on my supporting leg and tilting my pelvis.

    It's reassuring to hear some of you have experienced similar problems and that you have had treatments to help improve it.
     
  11. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Sounds like a good plan.

    Good luck, I hope you get it sorted in a timely fashion :)
     
  12. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    it's not the pivoting i was referring to, but the hip flexion/extension :). human hips simply don't have a lot of range of motion straight out to the side (abduction), and forcing it results in impingement, so whenever you're throwing a roundhouse or side kick, depending on how much you pivot, you'll have to either flex or extend the supporting leg's hip as well, for example, here are a side kick and a roundhouse with extreme hip rotation:

    http://www.karatefrascati.it/images/tecniche/yoko_geri_kekomi.jpg

    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-F-H2BbASB...odan+mae-ashi+mawashi-geri.+January+2012..JPG

    notice that in both kicks the kicker's pelvis is tilted more than 45º to the side, ending up almost perpendicular to the floor, even for the yoko geri, which relative to the kicker is basically chest-high, so the hips don't require as much mobility, and neither of the hips is abducted (both are flexed for the roundhouse, and the kicking hip is extended on the side kick). if you are getting hurt, you are either not actually doing this properly, or you have some sort of abnormal mobility deficit, and need to see a medical professional ASAP before something really serious happens.
     
  13. Moosey

    Moosey invariably, a moose Supporter

    This is true for most people, apart from those born with particular hip joint construction that allows a lot of motion in the sideways plane. I think you probably need to both pivot your supporting leg so it's pointing a full 180 degrees away from your target and make your side kick into slightly more of a back kick.

    I have a similar issue to yourself - hip joints that have very little sidewards mobility - but I can kick high by adjusting the technique slightly. You probably can too.
     
  14. mocochoco

    mocochoco Valued Member

    Yes this is basically what I do with my side kicks to make them work, and I can perform them like this without pain. I find this isn't really possible to implement for round kicks or especially not hook kicks.

    Many thanks for the extra replies.
     
  15. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    ugh, hooks kicks are a pain in the ass, mobility-wise. i have perfectly healthy hips and i still took years to learn to do them without impinging my hips. for roundhouses you have to keep the kicking hip constantly in flexion and control the movement almost exclusively with pelvic tilt, rotation and supporting leg hip flexion (picture "throwing" your hips along with the kick, almost as if you were actually trying to hit with your butt). hook kicks are trickier, since you have to kinda raise the leg by flexion, then rotate fully so your leg is horizontal, and then hit via extension and knee flexion without abducting (so kinda like a horizontal axe kick). it's an awkward kick by nature, though.
     
  16. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    You can do hook kicks with mostly knee pivot, but you can also do them in the same fashion that Fish of Doom describes roundhouses - moving the hips throughout the range of motion. It largely depends on the starting position of the kick and your flexibility.

    Bottom line is; if you're experiencing pain within normal range of motion then seek medical advice.

    If you're experiencing discomfort during ranges of motion that are new to you (as almost everyone will when first learning kicks), then practice and good technique will be enough to get you through the discomfort.

    If you're being expected to perform high (above waist-height) roundhouse and hook-kicks after just 4 months of training [EDIT: when you have difficulty doing that], then for me your instructors are prioritising flexibility over ligament & tendon strength, and I would question either their knowledge or interest in your future health and ability.

    For weak abductors, I like the classic ballerina exercise of raising your leg laterally (as well as front and back). For the hook and roundhouse kicks, practice them at very low heights inbetween classes.

    But it's worth repeating: if you're experiencing pain within normal range of motion then seek medical advice.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2012
  17. Sketco

    Sketco Banned Banned

    If you're having trouble with high kicks take up boxing or a style which kicks low. Seems like a much simpler fix.
     
  18. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    That's not a fix, that's a fudge.

    fudge /fəj/
    Verb:
    Present or deal with (something) in a vague, noncommittal, or inadequate way, esp. so as to conceal the truth or mislead.
     
  19. Sketco

    Sketco Banned Banned

    I'd say that's a fix. "Doctor doctor it hurts when I do this."

    If there's pain when high kicking switch to a style which doesn't require that ROM. It'll make it a lot easier to rehab and he can go back to doing high kicks later.
     
  20. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Yes, but if mocochoco enjoys their present training, and their instructors are any good, then shouldn't they be able to practice everything except high-kicks until given the green light by a medical professional?

    Seems a bit rash, and possibly counter-productive, to switch art because of a (hopefully minor) flexibility issue.
     

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