Hip Joint Pain after resume martial arts training

Discussion in 'Health and Fitness' started by dr azebo, Nov 30, 2018.

  1. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

    1. Yes
    2. See your doctor and get an x-ray. That will help diagnose arthritis, but for other types you also need a blood test as well
    3. It depends on what type of Arthritis.

    I was diagnosis with arthritis in my 40s, but it was nothing to worry about, in my 50s it got worse after a forced hiatus from martial arts due to injury and in my case I will never kick over my head again.
  2. dr azebo

    dr azebo New Member

    Hello Van Zandt et al,

    I went to my TCM doctor and she said that she doesn't believe it's arthritis and further more i need to add a correction my pain is not really at the hip joint but it is the hip flexor which is constantly sore.

    So with that in mind I still would like to see if anyone can answer the last set of questions i had:

    1) I understand that poor form and weak supporting muscles can cause soreness, however isn't it expected that someone my age , after so many years of inactivity is going to get some type of hip joint soreness , especially while going through the isometric split progression regiment. So basically isn't it normal to feel sore?

    2) I may need more of a recovery time with my age, but with that said, I believe i read on one of your threads that light/relaxed stretching can be done every day. Is that accurate and would that still apply to someone like in my situation or do you advocate some days where I don't do anything at all whatsoever?

    3) you speak of strengthening muscles that stabilize core, is the isometric split program not helping to do so? It sounded to me as if the point of this exercise is to build that support and build the necessary strength.

    4) you mentioned nutrition, is there any specific nutrition you should or should not take while you working on flexibility especially in your fourties?

    Thank you all in advance for any input you may have.
  3. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    What did your orthapedic surgeon or rheumatologist Dr say?
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  4. dr azebo

    dr azebo New Member

    I obviously didn't go to those kind of specialists since as I indicated the pain is rather mild and only there when i do any activity that involves stretches.

    In anyway, although my opening question looks like i wanted medical diagnosis on this thread, that is not what I am really after.

    I merely wanted to know if the amount of soreness i am experiencing given my age, time of inactivity and training intensity is normal or not to which I don't I still have an answer.

    Also the other questions I am still hoping to get answered are fairly specific and try to answer how I can train in a way that can reduce the soreness:

    1. I got the fact that i need to warm up which i am doing now given people's input on this thread.
    2. do i need reduce intensity , ie let the soreness fully dissipate before stretching my legs again?
    3. How can I strengthen my muscles to support the split, isn't the isometric program designed to do just that or do I need to do anything supplemental?
    4. what diet can help with reducing soreness.
    I think i am asking very clear questions and I hope someone will respond to those or point me to any information which does.

    Thank you
  5. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    Hi dr azebo, while people will discuss various ailments on MAP, please keep in mind that mentioning seeing a Dr is pretty much always going to happen on threads like this as part of the thread.

    Only one or two of us are any type of actual medical professional. And most of us are wary of giving advice without mentioning a Dr. ruling out something going on that we don't know without. Without at least mentioning that seeing one in addition to listening to us is a good idea. In fact, it would be absolutely irresponsible to not mention it.

    So, while people will try to help, please don't sound impatient with people doing due diligence in mentioning actual trained medical professionals. (Maybe I am misreading the sounding impatient part? If I am, I am sorry.)

    I wish you all the best. :)
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  6. Monkey_Magic

    Monkey_Magic Well-Known Member

    Well said Dead_pool and Aaradia. I agree. Seeing a medical professional is a good idea.

    Personally, I wouldn’t rely on TCM alone.
  7. Old bloke

    Old bloke Active Member

    Dr azebo , yes some soreness and or joint or muscle stiffness can be expected if you have not trained for some time, especially around the hips and legs if kicking or stretching, a gentleman called Porl Stone (Welsh commonwealth coach, former British coach in Takwondo and Kyorugi) told me upon returning to kicking and dynamic stretching an exercise to help, which involved sitting on the floor with your back against the wall (perfectly straight), open your legs until it starts to become uncomfortable, bring your legs back a touch so you are within a stretch but comfortable, then raise your left leg for a 10 count, put the leg back down then repeat with the right leg, then again with both legs raised, once you can do this for a 10 count with ease, you can resume more dynamic stretching and kicking routines, worked for me, the rest of the issues have been covered, hope this helps.
    spawn2031, axelb and Monkey_Magic like this.
  8. dr azebo

    dr azebo New Member

    Hello, thank you for you reply, I almost gave up on getting any additional input.

    I don't think I am as impatient as I am a bit frustrated. I believe this thread clearly moved away from me asking for a diagnosis but asking very specifically some questions but unfortunately people don't seem to be reading the questions carefully and keep reverting back to their initial recommendations of me having to see a doctor ( which I did even though some don't consider TCM as qualified it seems).

    Again the questions are reading how much of soreness at this age is normal and how to adjust the intensity if dealing with "normal soreness" and proper diet.

    Unfortunately all of those questions have still gone unanswered.
  9. dr azebo

    dr azebo New Member

    Thanks a lot for your feedback, I will be sure to give this a shot.
    On the subject of soreness, I think i still would like to know if you should wait until the soreness has fully gone before starting the next workout or not.
    My japanese Sensei ( in his 70s ) believes that you just keep stretching through the soreness and pain but then again I understand these are old school approaches which have not been replaced by more scientific theories.

  10. Monkey_Magic

    Monkey_Magic Well-Known Member

    Sometimes the best advice isn’t what you want to hear.

    People keep reverting to recommending that you see a medically qualified doctor, because a TCM “doctor” isn’t as qualified.

    Whether or not you like the advice, your best bet is to see see a proper doctor (ideally a sports physician).
  11. Old bloke

    Old bloke Active Member

    I think your Sensei is correct to a degree, you need to continue but when sores occurs reign it in and do take regular rest days, with the soresness (if it just a few aches and not constant pain albeit light), with the light to medium and not dynamic stretching should be done by, on the in breath scan your body for the tension, and release or relax that area on the out breath, if the sorness continues after approx 10 min, move your training to another body area, or take more rest days. But if the general muscle tightness gets worse or increases then seek medical advice.
  12. Old bloke

    Old bloke Active Member

    I just read my post and feel i may need to clarify what i wrote. Tension is an enemy, when warming up (especially when new or returning) you need to start slowly, taking deliberate breaths, in through the nose and out through the mouth, you need to stretch, check all of your body, from the neck, back hinge and legs, breath in (starting lightly), as you breath in and stretch check for tension, find the tension, and release that tension on the out breath, in crease the stretch range and repeat, once you have gone through your stretching (whether a whole body or lower body and leg), then introduce movement, an in crease that movement as you warm up. The reverse should be done on the warm down, obvious to most, but all through the warm up or down, you should be scanning your body for tension on the in breath, and releasing that tension on the out breath, also when warming up, if you are doing a press up, breath in for the whole of the press up, repeat for the out breath, it should last for the whole press up/sit up/squat, chin up, whilst breathing in checking for tension, and releasing that tension on the out breath.
  13. dr azebo

    dr azebo New Member

    Again: we passed the diagnosis part. I am asking specific questions now about training and your notion about a TCM doctor not being qualified is somewhat subjective at best.
  14. Monkey_Magic

    Monkey_Magic Well-Known Member

    I never said a TCM “doctor” wasn’t qualified. (I’m sure they’re qualified in TCM.) However, I’d argue that a medical doctor is more qualified when it comes to practising medicine - including arthritis diagnosis.

    Are you suggesting that a TCM “doctor” is just as qualified as a medical doctor when it comes to arthritis?

    “Normal soreness” could be delayed onset muscle soreness. If so, here’s some good advice. (NB: diagnosis via internet forum isn’t the same as seeing a sports physician or physiotherapist.)

    Re: warmup and stretching, the NSCA advice boils down to:
    1. Start with 5-10 minutes general warmup (e.g. light cardio, gradually increasing tempo)
    2. Dynamic stretching (sports specific)
    3. Martial arts training
    4. End with 3+ minutes of static stretching, plus cooldown
    More detailed advice can be found in the bible of strength and conditioning :)

    Last but not least, when and what do you eat after training? (The right post-exercise food matters too.)
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2019
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  15. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    A TCM doctor isn't qualified in evidence based medicine.

    Just as an astrologer isn't as good as a mechanic in fixing cars.

    "One of these things is not like the other."
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  16. Late for dinner

    Late for dinner Valued Member

    dr azebo I understand your frustration.

    Part of the problem is that you had people focused on your hip and then changed it to your hip flexor. People might not have read all the posts and may still be dealing with your initial questions.

    As far as things go it's really personal how you feel and what you want to accept as part of your training. Van Zandt's suggestions are usually pretty practical and don't make outrageous expectations.

    Just a comment - going to the gym/skiing/tennis are not the same as doing martial arts. I went back to playing rugby at 50 and was in constant daily pain for at least 3 years. When you do something different, add load on top of it, and add aggression the mix is quite different than your usual recreational sports.

    Just my 2 cents.

  17. spawn2031

    spawn2031 New Member

    Dr. Azebo,

    Seems you and I are in very similar situations. You are not alone in this. See the thread that I started yesterday.. though I might not have started it if I had seen this thread first! lol. I am pretty much the same age and experiencing many of the same problems and frustrations with not finding exact answers and a clear cut path on how to proceed to overcome this issue. I, just like you, had initially thought my pain was joint related but have to come to find out that the pain I feel seems to be be all hip flexor. I actually had a really hard workout this last Saturday and by the end of the night, my right hip flexor area was hurting so bad I thought I had actually tore something, 2 days later I'm fine. I'm no Dr. but I dont think a tore muscle can heal that quick and if that's the case, it's gotta be what these fine people have been pointing towards with pain being caused by weakness in those muscle groups. So, my plan... so far, is to concentrate almost solely on strengthening these hip flexors through whatever exercises I can find here (there's a cool vid posted on my thread with some new stuff I've never tried before) and see where that takes me.

    Also, on your question about how long you should wait to resume training after feeling the pain... once again I am no Dr. but I will be happy to share my experiences since we're in the same boat. When I've done a lower body workout that really aggravates that area and puts me in a good amount of pain, I find that light stretching in the area (once the pain onsets) helps to make the pain go away faster. I will place myself in forward leaning stance, hard bow, fighting stance so many names for it, lol (front leg bent back leg straight). I'll widen my stance until I can start to feel a gentle pull on my hip flexors and hold it for 15 slow breaths or as long as you feel comfortable. Remember if the stance isn't comfortable, your muscles can't relax as they are working to hard to maintain your balance, if you have to.. hold onto something. I'll do this on both sides 2 or 3 times until it starts to loosen up and most of the time, by morning I'm back to normal. I also found last night (credit to this forum) that if I do light knee raises at a medium pace, it seems to release the pain and tension as well. If you do all of this though and you still have pain the next day, I would work on another part of your body if you must work out. I have always been told that if an area of your body is sore and hurting, you shouldn't push it there or you may risk actually injuring it. A couple MA instructors have told me that plus I remember that being the rule of thumb in High School gym class. Anyway, just my 2 cents on that and what works for me to mitigate the pain we are both feeling.

    I'm going to be following your thread here. Hopefully we can help each other get through this. I 1000% understand your frustration... not being able to do something that you know you SHOULD be able to. Kinda makes it hard to be as patient as we need to be in our decrepit age, lol.
  18. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

    I'm a big proponent of TCM, but not all TCM "doctors" are created equal and not all are actually doctors. It all depends on what their background and training are and where they got that training.

    What is your TCM doctors background; education and training?

    And trained in China means nothing, unless they tell you what they were training in while in China. Meant one Chinese TCM practitioner who had the claim trained in China....however that training was as an accountant, not in TCM. All their TCM training occurred in the USA. Meant another who also made the "trained in China" claim, and the were, as a nurse. Not as a TCM practitioner and again all their TCM training was from the west.
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2020
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  19. Monkey_Magic

    Monkey_Magic Well-Known Member

    Also, you could consider adding a gentle ‘recovery workout’ the day after really hard training. See: Best activities for active recovery
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