Hi All, More advice please.

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by _sam_, Aug 14, 2011.

  1. _sam_

    _sam_ Valued Member

    Been training at a kickboxing club since around february and i'm not happy with a couple of things so wanted to discuss it here and get some feedback before i bring it up with my instructor, cheers.

    As i say, we've been there since february (me, my son and daughter) and to be fair have really enjoyed it up to now, but a few little niggles have really begun to grate on me. My son and daughter, aged 8 and 10, have been coming with me to mixed classes, kids and adults, as there isn't really any specific kids classes and it makes more sense to come down with me when i go too to be honest. Now i was fine with this at first, but they are getting hurt. The instructor has them holding the kick/punch pads for the adults and almost every session its one or the other in tears over the pads being hit too hard etc. The instructor just shrugs and says its something they will get used to over time, but i disagree, i don't feel kids should hold the pads for adults unless they have full control. (some of the begginners don't at all, obviously) Thoughts on this please.

    Syllabus. There are specific grading syllabus's posted up on the walls of the academy, yet classes don't follow any set structure. My son and i have recently passed our 1st grading (white belt) but to be fair i don't feel we're learning anything. For example, in my daughter's first class she was practicing neck wrestling drills! (with her friend of the same age, but still) and has not been shown any basic stances, kicks or punches. There is no begginners class, everyone just jumps in and trains together, but as i say, with no basic structure which i feel is needed. We do a lot of conditioning work, which i enjoy, but i feel we should be learning more. Again, thoughts on this please.

    My own boxing background has been called on extensively also. I joined to learn something new, yet i'm thrown in with EVERYBODY to spar. Now, i love sparring, so at first this wasn't a problem, but i'm constantly reminded to go easy with the less experienced guys (while they just go wild) and while i'm asked to pressure the more experienced guys, something i'm very good at, i'm soon pulled up if i go in hard-ish. I think the problem here is the difference between boxing sparring and martial arts/kickboxing sparring... When i spar with boxer's, which i still do frequently, we ALWAYS wear headgear and its good, hard sparring. At the kickboxing we never wear headgear, and are basically expected to go light, which is fair enough, but not everyone does. Am i expected to go light still when a lad is clearly trying to take my head off? Seems a tad unfair to me.

    I'll give you an example, which is fairly typical of my instructors attitude towards guys i spar with. A few weeks ago i was asked to spar with the club's best fighter (best as he has won a couple of fights) as he had a fight coming up and needed some sparring. BUT, i was asked to lend him my headgear, wear 16oz gloves and take it easy, while he wore 10oz gloves and pretty much went as hard as he liked and was clearly trying to knock me down/out. Had it not been for my experience he probably would have succeeded, but i managed to cover up through the worst of it and came away with only a swollen nose and couple of black eyes, while bloodying his nose. (he's a sucker for straight shots) I wasn't feeling 100% on the day, but as i'm not one for making excuses i kept quiet about it and took my lumps so to speak. But this sort of thing happens a lot. I'm told to go easy, while the other guy clearly isn't. I'm starting to think that whenever the lads go hard i should just jump on them. I have actually done this twice already, the first time the instructor let it go as they have had probs with him doing this to other members and wanted him taught a lesson, but the second time i was told to reign in my shots a little as i had the lad on queer street, yet it was fine a min earlier when he was going mental? Ok.

    Club kit. Its really crap quality stuff, but hugely over-priced. This is a small gripe to be honest and probably a petty one, but as i'm being pressured to buy the kit its becoming a problem. Vest tops a t-shirts being sold at 20 quid a go when they have clearly been bought from primark for 2 quid each! I'm not used to wearing club uniforms though to be honest, its never been an issue at boxing except at fights which is fair enough. But paying for new gloves etc because they have to be academy gear, THEN just having an academy sticker stuck on them is a bit much. I wouldn't mind paying over the odds for quality kit, but it really is crap stuff.

    And finally, the gym area. I pay extra on top of my monthly class fee's for gym access, yet 9 times out of 10 when i go down its closed. When i call or text ahead to ask what time its going to be open i'm told a time, only for the instructor to be late, up to 2 hours at times! So ive started training elsewhere. Again this is grating on me a little.

    Any thoughts/advice would be much appreciated guys, cheers.

    Also, i'm planning to go and look at Bob Sykes's club. Black Belt Academy in huddersfield so if anyone has any thoughts/advice on this too, again it'd be much appreciated.

    cheers,

    Sam
     
  2. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    A whole host of problems, but the biggest one for me is the mixed kids and adults. This is wrong, plain and simple. This and the lack of structure tells me this instructor is poor.

    I think you are right to look elsewhere.
     
  3. Seventh

    Seventh Super Sexy Sushi Time

    I'd suggest going somewhere else. Other people may suggest for you to say but to be honest, I'd put your kids safety first.
     
  4. Happy Feet Cotton Tail

    Happy Feet Cotton Tail Valued Member

    I think you would be right to look else-where.

    I wasn't particularly against kids and adults training in the session, but when you mentioned kids holding pads for adults that's when the alarm bells started ringing for me. I'm not a particularly tough striker by any means but I don't think the consequences would be great if a 10/11 year old had to hold thai-pads for me while I pummelled in with round house kicks.. :/

    The second alarm bell, "new guys going mental", how long has this been going on? This should be ironed out of the new students straight after the first sparring session and what's more people should be encouraged to complain and warn "Spazzers" when they are getting out of control. Contact sparring is not fighting, you are there to train with eachother. Some people have to get up tommorrow morning and go to work and will not appreciate receiving a black eye every sunday night then going to work on the Monday morning with everyone in the office asking "what happened?".

    Third alarm bell. Instructors can't keep to simple promises like when they will arive, even when you are paying them! Also for a gym that is established enough to produce fighters they should know what is "good gear" by now and are either selling you tat because they are idiots or because they are greedy.

    Simply put the gym sounds dangerous and incompetantly run, two excellent reasons to leave! Good luck with your further adventures. :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2011
  5. _sam_

    _sam_ Valued Member

    Thanks mate, ive already started. We're going on holiday next week but have a couple of clubs we're going to go check out when we get back.

    The mixed classes were/are my main concern, but listed the other problems too just to illustrate how unhappy i am with the club, but yeah, not happy with the mixed classes at all. My kids aren't cry babies, it actually takes a lot to set my son off to be fair, especially when i'm there with him, but as i say its one or the other, almost every training session and i'm feds up with it. The worst by far was my daughter being punched in the mouth by a grown woman during ''light'' sparring, the woman didn't even have gloves on, just handwraps!

    While typing that last sentence alone ive realised how stupid ive been continuing to take my kids to this club, what was i thinking!

    Cheers for the advice mate

    Sam
     
  6. _sam_

    _sam_ Valued Member

    Yep, i'm going to mate, cheers. I'm annoyed with myself for leaving it so long now to be honest.
     
  7. _sam_

    _sam_ Valued Member


    Yeah i'm going to mate, already have a couple of clubs to go look at this week, cheers.

    Ive got to admit i was fine with kids training with adults at first, as it was a way of spending quality time with them, but its extremely hard to stand by and watch them get upset when their clearly in pain and being forced to carry on when they don't want to. Last week my son was hit in the face by a thai kick pad and i was told its because he needs to concentrate more when the kicks are coming in and brace himself! He's just turned 8 years old and these are adults were talking about! In the last 6 months he's been hit in the face with pads, kicked and punched and elbowed by our instructor during demonstrations of how to throw said moves, and ive had enough. This alone proves to me he's not soft/ a cry baby etc as this kind of treatment could have put him off martial arts for a long time.... Its funny, but coming on here for feedback before i tell the instructor that we're leaving and why, has really brought home to me how late ive left it. I should have taken them out of there weeks ago.

    As for the sparring, i'm a boxer, it may sound silly but i'm used to this kind of thing. Over the years ive been to some good gyms and bad gyms. A lot will just throw inexperienced lads into the ring and watch while they suffer real beatings, in the belief that it will make them better/tougher boxers in the long run. And those that can't hack it and leave, well they wern't cut out for boxing. Its wrong, but it happens. My instructor though is always insisting sparring should be light otherwise nobody learns from it (which i tend to agree with, but still feel hard sparring is also required at a higher level too) yet this doesn't work with the actual sparring sessions they allow.

    Its been going on from the day i joined the club mate. I was told at first i'd have to wait 3 months before i could spar until i'd graded my first belt, yet this rule was waived when they realised how much boxing experience i had and i was allowed to join in the sparring. One lad in particular has caused some real problems at the club, in fact still does. He spars as if its a real fight, no matter who he's sparring with, man or woman. He doesn't do it with me anymore or one or 2 other guys, but with people he can dominate and get away with it he just goes all out. the no sparring for 3 month rule is rarely kept to now either, with a lot of un graded guys being thrown into the ring with yours truly. BUT, ive got excellent control and don't take liberties, but as i say i'm getting a tad fed up with idiots trying to jump all over me. but if i start knocking them out its no good for anyone is it.

    The gym never being open has really started to annoy me too, like you say, i'm paying extra for this yet not getting the access! And as for the crap gear/uniforms its simply a greed thing. Ive noticed a lot lately that the club is being run as a business, while the instructor claims that making money isn't a priority, but its bulls**t. They slag off ''mc-dojo's'' all the time yet there's little difference here in my eyes.

    Cheers for your input mate, and sorry for the long rant haha

    Sam
     
  8. _sam_

    _sam_ Valued Member

    I'm going to name the club and instructor once ive told them we're leaving and why, if anyone's interested, that way people know not to waste their time/money etc but also as i feel i should do.
     
  9. Haakon

    Haakon Valued Member

    I'll add another vote for "go somewhere else to train". With that list of issues you're likely to never be happy there. The idea that an 8 year old will 'get used to' holding pads for adults kicking full power is absurd as well, they simply don't have the mass and strength to do that and the instructor (to use the term loosely) thinking they will tells me he doesn't know what he's doing. Maybe he's a great fighter, but he's a poor teacher.
     
  10. _sam_

    _sam_ Valued Member

    Cheers mate, i intend to.

    I wouldn't say they are kicking full power, but they are definately kicking too hard for an 8 year old, and i certainly agree with you. Last week for example (the same session my son was hit in the mouth) my daughters friend had come with us as she fancied joining and wanted to see what it was like, ended up with sore arms and a cut finger after a lad in his mid 20's was kicking too hard for her. She's 10 years old. Its just not on is it.

    The instructor is a she by the way. But yes, extremely experienced in the styles she practices. But yes, again i agree, poor teacher.

    Cheers mate,

    Sam
     
  11. Happy Feet Cotton Tail

    Happy Feet Cotton Tail Valued Member

    Cheers, sometimes it takes us all a bit of discussion for us to realise the position we are actually in. First person perspectives can be decieving at times! :cool:


    Note For Later: You're a boxer of ten years, chances are you've been in and out of contact sports almost as long (if not longer) than she has. Whatever "rank & expertise" tricks she tries to play on you remember, you are far from a novice and have every right to trust your judgement over hers!
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2011
  12. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    This is really bad. If your school has a governing body I would definately be reporting it.
     
  13. Blade96

    Blade96 shotokan karateka

    add another vote for run to another school. :)
     
  14. _sam_

    _sam_ Valued Member

    They definately do for the kickboxing yes, and for the filipino arts that are also taught.. Another example, the same lad who gets carried away during sparring also tried to tap out a 12 year old boy during sparring in the kombat class by putting him in an arm bar. When told this wasn't on he simply replied 'i don't care, i tapped out a yellow belt'! I, along with several others have suggested to the instructor that he should be banned from the club for this sort of behaviour before somebody gets hurt but she just doesn't listen.

    Oh, the lad is in his 30's by the way.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2011
  15. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    I think the instructor needs to be reported. Leadership comes from the top.
    It may be that the academy is good and you have been unlucky to have found a bad apple.
    The governing body may be only too glad to be put in the picture. If they don't like it, well it shows you were right to leave.

    What filipino art is it they do, is it eskrima and what style?
     
  16. Haakon

    Haakon Valued Member

    Worse and worse. She seems to be crossing the line from incompetent to criminal.

    I agree the 30 year old should be kicked out for that behavior and attitude too. Does it make him feel like a real man submitting a child? What a tool.
     
  17. _sam_

    _sam_ Valued Member

    You could be right mate, yeah.. At first i just wasn't happy, now i want my kids out of there and training at a club where they can enjoy it in a safer, and professional environment.

    The academy only has one instructor, who is also the owner etc. But yeah, i'll dfinately give some serious consideration to reporting her.

    To be honest i know virtually nothing about filipino arts, as i have no interest in them and only joined for the kickboxing, but as far as i know, while its primarily stick fighting (arnis?) that's taught (the instructor is a world champ at this), she is actually qualified to teach all 3 arts/style's... Am i right that this is the sticks, knives and empty hand etc? Other than that i'm not 100% sure as like i say, ive took very little interest in that side of the clubs teachings. If you like i could PM you the instructors and the academy's name, that way you may already know or could find out.

    cheers,

    Sam
     
  18. _sam_

    _sam_ Valued Member

    My thoughts exactly and one of the reasons why i reccomended he be kicked out. This is the same guy who has been warned numerous times about acting stupid during sparring (heavy shots, hitting after the buzzer etc and actually taking the instructor to the ground during hands only sparring on one occaision!) yet she doesn't listen. Its ridiculous to be honest.
     

Share This Page