Here's where I draw the Line! Enough of this!

Discussion in 'Tae Kwon Do' started by Labatt, Jun 20, 2003.

  1. Labatt

    Labatt New Member

    I quit.

    Officially, I did. I said “Im your best student, I’ve been here for 8 yrs, and you said I could get to go free after 3rd degree” He still said “ No” Now he says I’ll go free after 4th degree. Infact my instucter says hes gonna up the price by 10%. And that was that folks. I paid the testing though, other wise all the other money would be waiste.

    My dream is crushed ) : Im hitting the boose right now, if anyone would like to join me please do HAhaha…..cheers
     
  2. Peaceful_John

    Peaceful_John New Member

    Don't hit the booze. I think you did a good thing. You more than likely enjoyed the past 8 years, so don't think of it as money wasted. Happiness and piece of mind are worth more than money. My advise is to look around for a different style and go there. Make sure to ask about all the fees beforehand. If you put in all the hard work and dedication you did in TKD i'm sure you'll be there best student in no time. You say your dream is crushed? Was your dream to become a 4th dan in TKD, or to become the best MAist you can be? You can still do that. You're young, and 3 or 4 more years is nothing. And just because you don't go to a TKD school doesn't mean you have to stop practicing it on your own, so you'll always be a 3rd dan in TKD.

    You're a 15 year old with a 3rd dan in TKD and you're drinking. I'm 23, divorsed, living with the parents, recent bankrupt, barely making it through college, and i'm scraping up money just to be able to take a martial art, but i have a cup of coffee so everything is fine. There are two morals to this story - no matter how bad things are they could always get worse - And coffee fixes everything, so have yourself a cup.

    I envy you. I would be so lucky to have your dedication and self-confidence. Those two things are more important than a TKD school that rips off it students, so cheer up and count yourself lucky.

    Best of luck kid. I hope everything turns out for the best.
     
  3. ptcruiser

    ptcruiser New Member

    LaBatt,
    instead of quitting, Is there any other TKD school you could join since you have your certification?
    Would hate to see ma lose someone dedicated. Sometimes we have to move on to something bigger and better for us. One of the hardest things to do is change, after all we get cozy in our comfortable surroundings.
    Whatever you do don't give up completely. Good luck.
     
  4. Andy Murray

    Andy Murray Sadly passed away. Rest In Peace.

    Labatt, I have to say I'm glad you have taken this step.

    At 3rd Dan, what more could TKD have offered you?

    Ever consider training in another discipline?
     
  5. Marku

    Marku Banned Banned

    good luck Labatt! hope you make the right decision and continue your training :)
     
  6. teacher

    teacher Valued Member

    Good Luck Labatt. I hope you find another club or art to enjoy. It's the training , the learning and the people you will meet that will keep it worthwhile. Some of the recent comments seem to have walloped some TKD clubs but your acheivements are to your credit whatever your age.
     
  7. darlph

    darlph New Member

    Hey guy, you set out to do what you said, very nice! You didn't quit and you won. Andy is right , time to take the next step, now is the time to add to your training. Perhaps another style?
    Just keep you integrity and not bad mouth your previous school or teacher. Obviously his word is not good, so be above him. You already "outrank" him in that and he broke your trust.
    Keep up working out and training while you look for something else.:)
     
  8. Artikon

    Artikon Advertise here ask me how

    I don't agree with this . . . unless the confrontation becomes physical, then I will say that size does play an advantage but it can be overcome with proper training and awareness. The trick is for a smaller fella . . . such as myself weighing in at a massive 134 lbs is to not allow a confrontation to get to a point where the other fella wants to hit you. Get outta dodge if you can, if that doesn't work go to plan B. Keep him talking and let him know its a bad idea in any way you can (my personal favorite: You're going to hit a tiny guy? Okay, but I hope buddy over there can afford bail with the amount of witnesses around) If B doesn't work, go to C and fight hard and cheat :D If you ain't cheatin you're not trying hard enough.

    Why is it percieved this way . . . how about sterotype? How about all the mysterious BS that the public holds a black belt to. Black belt is NOT a universal standard, otherwise there wouldn't be all these "issues" regarding what a black belt is. For my school 1st dan is familar with basics, your job now is to polish them. 2nd dan now has techniques polished, time to develop your power, 3rd dan now has the power, time to build speed and fluidity, 4th dan has all the tools now to begin learning how to be an instructor. 5th dan and up, now really begin to contribute back to your art. How does this cause a BB in TKD to be at a lesser standard. It's just a different way of teaching and different mentality behind it.

    My "claim to fame" as a black belt is that I can do a front kick, round kick, and side kick pretty good, but everyday I improve. I tell my students this because I'm not going to tell them I'm something I'm not. I am not perfect, I will not survive a street confrontation 100% of the time, althought I have a good chance to get away, I am not a national champion, although with much training I could be. Will this get me a black belt in another art or style . . . probably not. Does this bother me? Nope, because I'm currently on a journey of TKD. Will this prevent me from studying other styles? Nope, not in the least, in fact I take what I learn from other stuff and take it back to TKD training. (Just learned MT kicks and did some conditioning this last week, WOW do I hurt but it's good)

    Last note to Labatt, sorry to hear dude. Whatever you do don't let it get you down, continue training with whatever you choose, work hard, train hard, keep spirit and if you ever need a hand finding another TKD school in your area, let me know, may be able to help. . . . BTW your BC provincial team did well at nationals this weekend, some good up and comer fighters, glad my face wasn't in the way of some of them.
     
  9. KickChick

    KickChick Valued Member

    Hey Labatt... sorry to hear the news.

    (Really sorry!) .... seems that you ay need to (again) take a breather and see what your options now might be.

    One thing is for sure, as you go through life you will learn (and it is unfortunate) ... that you sometimes cannot take anyone's word especially when it comes down to $$ .... sometimes this is when a contract does come in handy although frowned upon with regards to ma training.. I find them at tmes necessary.

    What surprises me is that you are not instructing at this school.
    Many of our bb assist and instruct several classes (especially at holday/vacation time) and are either compensated or tuition is waived.

    I am only 2nd dan and I have been training for 10 years (I have 250 lessons to go for 3rd dan)... I don't pay for my training but do pay testing fees. There is an option for you if you approach your instructor honestly... he I am sure doesn't want to lose his "best student"
     
  10. stump

    stump Supersub

    <<<I don't agree with this . . . unless the confrontation becomes physical, then I will say that size does play an advantage but it can be overcome with proper training and awareness.>>>

    How many fights have you heard of that haven't been physical?!! I agree with you but the training and awareness has to be proper, and most martial arts classes sell themselves as self defence and then proceed to teach things that are more likely to get someone hurt than save them......(not MY club I hear everyone shout). Some of you will be correct, and some will be deluding yourselves.

    <<<How does this cause a BB in TKD to be at a lesser standard. >>>

    If my MA club's blackbelt involves learning A, B, C, and D for 3 years and another persons club involves learning A, B, C, D, E, F, and G over 5 years then the second club has the better standard black belts.

    And a black belt shows that you know the stuff not that you can do it
     
  11. johndoch

    johndoch upurs

    Labatt

    Sorry to hear that you had to quit.

    It should be for the best. Just remember to keep training and good luck in finding something new
     
  12. Thomas

    Thomas Combat Hapkido/Taekwondo

    Labatt

    Sorry to hear that your training will be disrupted and I hope you find your way into another school soon (whatever style). For what it matters, it sounds to me like you made a good choice. My only advice is to not waste time boozing and feeling bad. Get out and see what your options are... have some fun and sample some nearby schools. May fortune shine upon you wherever you may go.
     
  13. Artikon

    Artikon Advertise here ask me how

    From my experience . . . many. To me a fight doesn't have to involve anything to physical in the sense of fists flying, going to the ground, etc . . . Fights can be verbal, fights can be puffed up chests about ego. See these all the time in pubs and bars. Person A has to much to drink. Tries pick fight with person B. Person B tells him it's a bad idea. Confrontation averted. I won't say I've been in tons of actual fights. I have managed to **** off enough people though that they want to hurt me, (just my charming personality :D ) but I've always either got out of the situation, or simply talked them down. I'm not a self defense expert by any means, but I think so far I'm doing a pretty good job, haven't had to hit anyone yet, and I haven't been hit.

    I do agree however that it is wrong for a school to pass itself off as a self defense school if say, for the sake of arguement, all they teach is olympic style sparring. That's gonna get someone hurt and I'm sure has. I feel it's wrong for a person to call a cat a dog, not so much because of the honesty issue, but because it's going to get people hurt.

    I think this analogy is wrong. If 3 year training black belt only needs to learn 4 things, that means he can spend 3/4 of a year training that one thing to become profficient at it. This is more time than your other 5 year BB who trains to learn 7 concepts who will spend 7/10 of a year with the ideas. Granted the 5 year BB is introduced to more, but do you think maybe the 3 year BB is more profficient and has a better understanding of the things he has studied? More is not always better.
     
  14. stump

    stump Supersub

    I think you'll find theat in most people's dictionary that's not a fight.....so my point holds.

    <<<I do agree however that it is wrong for a school to pass itself off as a self defense school if say, for the sake of arguement, all they teach is olympic style sparring. That's gonna get someone hurt and I'm sure has. I feel it's wrong for a person to call a cat a dog, not so much because of the honesty issue, but because it's going to get people hurt.>>>

    and if all they teach is sloppy wrist locks against a compliant partner they are also going to get their students hurt. A lot of "self defence classes" forget the meat and potatoes of self defence - the jab cross.

    If one person practices kicking for one year and another practices kicking for three years, who'd going to have the better kicks...length of time does matter which is why the majority of TKD black belts I've experienced are **** poor.....not all I agree but their minimum standard for a black belt is the lowest I've seen.

    But that's all irrlelvant to be honest, because grades don't mean a damn thing. I'm far more concerned with an avoidance of real sparring, a very incomplete syllabus and a majority of time spent doing irrelevant things like hyung. That's the main reason TKDs black belts are substandard....couple that with a short time training and you got a problem
     
  15. Tosh

    Tosh Renegade of Funk

    Sorry for dragging this thread kicking and screaming off topic but......

    Personally, I feel it is not the TKD syllabus that is flawed 90% of the time it is instructors!!!

    The numbers of times I've seen students put forward to grade becuase they've fulfilled time requirements is astonishing.

    Although I've now seen this "sub-standard TKD black belts" remark popping up rather too much. Of course I'm biased but I'm off to start a (hopefully) interesting thread on ....

    <drum roll>

    Minumum requirements for Bbelt
     
  16. stump

    stump Supersub

    I didn;t say it was flawed I said it was incomplete.

    I appreciate it's not a grappling style so I can't fault it for a lack of grappling, but it's elbows and knees are laughable and it has no clinch work. TKD like many TMA arts is more inteested in being unique than in being good.


    But I agree that getting belts is too focused upon......but that's the fault of both the students and instructors normally.
     
  17. Tosh

    Tosh Renegade of Funk

    Agreed that the elbows and knees are not great, by the way I thought these were valid tools to use in a "clinch"?

    However, my point of view is that TMA are good BECAUSE they are unique. TKD's speciality area is fast,hard kicking at numerous levels in the air and on the ground. In no way have I ever seen it touted as a "complete" martial art.

    Fair enough it's not the definitive answer but it is an answer!

    IMHO TKD is a hammer, good at bashing things, but sometimes you need a wrench! That's the importance of cross training.
     
  18. stump

    stump Supersub

    You're dead right......I meant that TKD has no clinch work.....elbows and knees are the weapons of choice at that range.

    I like your analogy btw

    <<<However, my point of view is that TMA are good BECAUSE they are unique. >>>

    Couldn't disagree more but each to their own. :)
     
  19. Artikon

    Artikon Advertise here ask me how

    Okay I can go with that



    Again I agree



    I do agree with length of time playing a vital role in a persons ability to perform and understand technique and the validility of said technique, but if you just have to practise kicks well that's just super. Typically there is much more than just kicks required for reaching black belt in a given art. If anyone has miminum requirements for other styles could you post them please I'd like to compare going along the lines of Tosh's request.

    I think right now we have a comparision of apples and oranges going on. We are comparing a black belt stereotype against black belt reality. The reality is that every style has a different purpose for the grade of black belt. As I said before 1st dan TKD just get good at the basics. From there you have a solid base. I can't speak for other arts but some of what I believe right now is that 1st dan in other arts has more to it. Which is better? Neither, just how the teaching progression works.

    I agree that there are some definate sub standard BB among TKD practicioners, but this has to do with instruction and testing to early. All arts/styles/instructors are guilty of this. I don't honestly believe there is a perfect system or syllabus out there to properly catch these sub standards, but what I do know is that systems are improving to rectify this. This isn't something that just isn't being swept under the carpet so to speak.

    BTW Tosh, I second the nice anaology . . . and how was Greece.
     
  20. Artikon

    Artikon Advertise here ask me how

    Tosh's request

    As per Tosh's request this it the minimum requirements for testing as per Kukkiwon, interested to see what others have to do.

    Article 10

    1) Test of techniques

    i) poomse (forms)
    ii) kyorugi (sparring)
    iii) kyukpa (breaking)
    iv) special techniques

    2) Test of theoretical study (over 4th dan applicant)

    i) written examination
    ii) thesis

    Article 11

    Specified Subjects of Practical Techniques Applied to the
    Poom and Dan Promotion Test

    1st dan/poom: Taeguek 1-7 random choice of panel, taegeuk 8 compulsory
    2nd dan/poom: Taegeuk 1-8 random choice of panel, koryo compulsory
    3rd dan/poom: Taegeuk 1-koryo random choice of panel, keumgang
    4th dan/poom: Taegeuk 1-keumgang random choice of panel, taebaek complulsory
    5th dan: Taegeuk 1-taebaek random choice of panel, pyongwon compulsory
    6th dan: Taegeuk 1-sipjin random choice of panel, jitae compulsory
    7th dan: Taegeuk 1-jitae random choice of panel, cheonkwon compulsory
    8th dan: Taegeuk 1-cheonkwon random choice of panel, hansoo complusory
    9th dan: Taegeuk 1-hansoo random choice of panel, Ilyon compulsory

    Please note that these are just minimum requirements taken from the Kukkiwon website, there are no maximum requirements, and I have never heard of a school that adheres strictly to the minimums. When I tested for 1st dan, weapons, and theory were included as well as a heavy self defense section and free fighting. In addition to the above requirements there are also age, and time in rank requirements as well.
     

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