here is some nice experimentation

Discussion in 'Tai chi' started by tpyeon, Nov 18, 2007.

  1. Fire-quan

    Fire-quan Banned Banned

    No, just in the real world, where we don't encourage people to hurt themselves by childish goading. What is it you want - me to agree to break JK's arm? I'm sure I asked you not to talk to me.
  2. Polar Bear

    Polar Bear Moved on

    You want a shovel to help with that digging. Your one fielding outrageous claims not us. Now we have l33t 13 years olds, knocking holes in pads (dunno where you buy yours mate but I would take them back). Legs almost breaking through thai pads. I have held the pads for a British Heavyweight Champion and sure after a few good ones your leg can get numb but unless you got sparrow legs they are no where near breaking.

    The Bear.
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2007
  3. Polar Bear

    Polar Bear Moved on

    You could always threaten to break my arm or set your 13 year old on me or is it only women you bully.

    The Bear.
  4. cheesypeas

    cheesypeas Moved on

    I have been 'sparring' for several years with a bunch of men. When it is my turn to hold the pads, I do.

    Sure it hurts and sometimes I get knocked what. The more I train this way, the stronger I get. There is no use working with people of your own strength if you want to improve.

    Instructors can mismatch people IF they have confidence that the stronger student will always work just above the others ability.

    Last edited: Nov 26, 2007
  5. Polar Bear

    Polar Bear Moved on

    Bingo ... exactly Carys.

    The Bear.
  6. jkzorya

    jkzorya Moved on by request

    When holding a pad for someone who is very powerful, rather than soak up 100% of the damage, we just step rather than getting knocked over - this is quite good training for the pad holder too. Give the striker as much resistance as you can but don't let yourself lose your vertical alignment or structure. Well that's how we do it.

    Well I don't know who you are, you could be anyone. I haven't knowingly seen you do anything.
  7. Fire-quan

    Fire-quan Banned Banned

    Well, thanks for the example of lying.

    I don;t give a god damn who you've trained with - and I don't actually believe ninety percent of anything you say.
  8. Fire-quan

    Fire-quan Banned Banned

    Well, I'll send you an invite when we set up the meet up. You can hit me with your rubber sword.
  9. Fire-quan

    Fire-quan Banned Banned

    What matters is the ability of the person you train with. Holding a pad correctly won't prevent you getting hurt if the person hitting it is far more powerful than the person holding it can take. You've already told me you have no senior male students; and even if you had, then it would depend on whether your method is making people really, really powerful. If not, then you get a very false sense of what you can take. No amount of structure will allow you to hold a pad for someone who has power that is massively differential to your structure.

    People like Polar Bear feed the illusion, because they happily make stuff up to support their position - it's a mistake to buy in to it. No woman of your size could ever hold the pads for a heavy weight san shou or muay thai fighter - it just doesn't make any sense. There's no way - and if a woman held the pads for someone, hitting full contact, he's weak. Unlike Polar Bear, I really have trained with heavy weight muay thai fighters - their power is exceptional, even for a man to to hold a pad for. Many people have had legs fractured through thai pads - it's inevitable, even with correct structure, if a person is mis matched, certainly to the degree of someone like me, who is six foot, 13 1/2 stone, training twenty years. In that time I've trained with women and children many, many times, and never hurt any of them, because I know my own strength. Men, on the other hand, have hurt me and I've hurt them.

    I don't believe you could hold a pad for me - but, you know, if you say you can, then you can. If you believe people like Polar Bear, who are speaking entirely out of personal agenda to appear right, then that's your choice to endanger yourself. You'll certainly never find out from me whether it is true or not.
  10. Fire-quan

    Fire-quan Banned Banned

    That's true, but there is a massive differential between professional level power and amatuer level. It's so massive, that most people who are involved in CMA, who have no concept or awareness of the difference, living in a dream state that they are the equivalent of people like pro boxers or san shou fighters, just don't even know it's there.

    I actually have had my shoulder dislocated holding a pad for a kung fu expert - and I really, really know how to hold a pad. There was just too much power differential.
  11. Polar Bear

    Polar Bear Moved on

    Sure, I'll bring it. You can test just how rubbery it is.

    The Bear.
  12. Polar Bear

    Polar Bear Moved on

    So please show me my lie?

    All this awesome power, man those kungfu guys must be cleaning up those $1,000,000 purses from K1, Pride and UFC.

    Bottom line is it all comes down to physics, oh btw I have a degree in it. Is that a lie too.

    Kinetic Energy = 1/2 mass x velocity ^2

    This is what determines the power of kicks. Your kick is travelling at around 4-5 m/s. The effective mass of your going into your kick 20kg

    10 * 16 = 160 joules.

    That's it. lets say JK weighs 50kg in newtons thats 500N. Your kick would move her 0.33m. The length of a school ruler and thats discounting friction and assuming you make your ideal kick velocity.

    The law of physics governs the universe not talk.

    The Bear.
  13. Taoquan

    Taoquan Valued Member

    Sorry again tpyeon,
    But I have to say "told ya so" :D
  14. cheesypeas

    cheesypeas Moved on

    Hi F-Q..we haven't 'drawn swords' before as it is not why I am on MAP.
    However, everyone I have ever met who is involved in CMA (and myself) are under no illusion that we are pro boxers or san shau fighters. No dream state for us. We simply train as hard and dilligently as we can and seek to constantly learn and improve.

    If you wish to argue from a professional standpoint I am not sure this is the best forum for you.

  15. cheesypeas

    cheesypeas Moved on

    Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah *breathe* hahahahahahahahahaha :D

    Sorry, I had to let that out! :p
  16. lieqi fan

    lieqi fan Valued Member

    I have some taiji handbags for sale if anyone's interested (special kung fu dust wallet included)
  17. Julie (MTA)

    Julie (MTA) Banned Banned

    Re: Fire-quan's assertions about jkzorya's abilities.

    He is seriously underestimating Joanna's skill and ability.
    An example: One of her students is works for the police in a role that means he has to physically restrain prisoners and defend himself and fellow officers from them. He says that what he is taught by Joanna constitute the best and most useful martial skills he has learned (and he used to be in the army). In my view, this is what counts, not Fire-quan's macho posturing, as he attempts to elevate himself by bullying and undermining good and reputable teachers like Joanna.
  18. Shadowdh

    Shadowdh Seeker of Knowledge

    wow a whole 13.5 stone... phew... that surely is a big un... gosh... um big uh huh... large... I must admit from your posturing I had imagined you to be at least 18 stone hulking beast of a man... at least... I also have to say I know a few big guys (truly big) who also practice ma and they have had pads held for them by much smaller opponents who amazingly enough still live normal lives to this day... I also believe there is nothing wrong with their power as I have had the pleasure (?) of holding their pads too... MA is not all about knowing how to administer power but also how to either redirect or withstand (poor choice of words here sorry) the power from your opponent... but perhaps that is just the way my teacher does it... on the whole "half your body weight issue"... I cant see how weight has much to do with transmission of power or the ability to withstand said power... I know some small guys who hit really hard and can take a hell of a hit too, while some bigger guys (me included probably) who are perhaps at the other end of the scale... I would also hesitate to say JK is half your size as I assume she is not 6.75 stone (not wishing to seem impolite in discussing a lady's weight here)... but if she is.. so what... if she can do it then she can...
  19. sparrow

    sparrow Chirp!

    I'm sure that many dojos are familiar with 'pulling punches'............ out of consideration, alter the power according to the bag holder's ability, and put full power into those who can take it. And if you're not sure, start soft and increase until appropriate. Just a mater of politeness. Sorry if I'm stating the obvious, no-one else seemed to :love:
  20. tpyeon

    tpyeon Valued Member

    hey taoquan,

    yeah, you're right. BUT! the fact that it's turned into another rambling thread containing metaphysics, ideological crusades and killer blows has little to do with the very good thread you were involved with. and everything to do with other little imps who could probably do the same in a thread titled "my description of watching paint dry".

    sighs indeed!

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