Help for a child with PDD/ADD

Discussion in 'Disabled Martial Artists' started by Mrs Owt, Jun 2, 2004.

  1. Mrs Owt

    Mrs Owt New Member

    Well I am not sure if this is the right place for this discussion but here goes nothing. I was approached by a fellow karate student last night about her son. He is 9 years old and has been diagnosed with PDD (pervasive developmental disorder) and ADD(attention deficit disorder) and has the emotional, cognitive and physical development of a 4-6 year old. From what I understand they expect this gap to get wider in relation to actual age to developmental age as he gets older. My fellow karateka wants him to join the L'il Dragons program at our dojo along with his younger brother and sister but is afraid of his aggression. I have all summer to prepare for him so any books, websites, and/or videos you can recommend would be appreciated.

    I am more than willing to accept him into the class as I have a large number of mature helpers and can give him one on one attention if need be, but I am mostly worried about issues with aggression and acting out. If anyone has any ideas on how to approach this issue I would appreciate advice. If anyone has any experience either teaching kids on the autism spectrum or living with them any advice that you can offer me would be greatly appreciated. The mother of this young boy is hoping that we can help him with his co-ordination and balance as well as help him learn how not to hurt people. Is a karate class a good place for him? He is getting other sorts of help at school and home but nothing really for his physical problems and they cannot afford private physiotherapy.

    Please help! I have faith in you MAP'ers - help me help this little boy, please?
     
  2. Nightstrike

    Nightstrike MMA Nerd

    I'm only 15 but i plan to go into psychology and I have delt with a kid who has aspergers and another kid closely who i very much suspect has aspergers.(he was a different kid and a teacher last year who knew i was interested in that field and stuff asked me if i was intersted and I accpeted)
    From my experience.
    You have to be very stern and to take charge but allways remember to be kind and loving and caring.
    you don't want to come off as mean but you need to come across as a person with a place of authority.
    it may be difficult because i notice they get obsessed with things to the point it seems thats all on their mind, sure some kids are like that, Even i was, but it seems that even if you try to get their mind off it its hard to do.
    so you've gotta be STERN.
    But most of all, Be LOVING AND CARING! I can't stress this enough!
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2004
  3. Pepsi32123

    Pepsi32123 New Member

    I was in a convocation of autistic and mentally handicapped children. Hospitals would have let one of them die. He was a dark brown all over his skin when the fauster (sp?) mom walked in and told them to help him. They were really letting him die. ADD and austic children, and adults, all have something in common. They are interested in what they want to be interested in. One adult is ADD and austic, and he can't concentrate on anything exept cars, another 9 year old with plants, and another kid in masage (sp?). So if you put that one kid (sorry i don't know his name) in Karate, then only put him in an introductory payment to not waste money. If he doesn't like it, then he will be agressive. You'll just have to wait out his life until he finds something he really likes. He'll be less agressive if he does what he wants, but you can't baby him or be 100% strict.
     
  4. Pepsi32123

    Pepsi32123 New Member

    One more thing. About him being in TKD, you should always have him around someone mature and able to restrain him or protect the others if he does decide to go off. No one should beat up on him, but I mean restraining as in non-painful. Have someone yell out to watch out for him if he gets agressive. When it comes to him sparring, make sure he knows what to do and what not to do, like no kicking below the belt or facial shots (our school's rules may be different). I hope that helps.
     
  5. Nightstrike

    Nightstrike MMA Nerd

    thats why she said its karate.
    karate here doesnt do real contact, its like they just touch.
    but not accually use power.
    but yea pepsi i pretty much agree with you
     
  6. Pepsi32123

    Pepsi32123 New Member

    Yeah, in our studio we only touch or tap. Usualy we'll break the rules and jump on the other's back when he/she's turned around. We have made-up animal stances, and that one is called "The Leach", then we act like we're suckin' the blook from the other's neck. Even when we don't know what we're doing, we still act along. Sometimes, with permission from the instructor, we'll "take it up a notch" and go medium to full contact sparring.

    Just for a laugh, some of our stances are the whombat, the leach, the crab, the drunken monkey, some bird that I can't remember, and so on. These are just ones we made up, not really in any TKD books.
     
  7. Tika

    Tika New Member

    Mrs Owt:

    I'm not to sure how much I can help but I would like to share my thoughts if thats ok.

    First off, I do not know much about PDD, I just looked it up on the internet to get a general idea before I said anything. If it were just ADD, I don't think you would be having trouble figuring out how to deal with the child in your class, but the PDD deffinitely looks like it may make for a challenge.

    Is there any posibility of maybe him taking a few private lessons with you? This way you could see how he reacted to one on one lessons, see if his attention can be held, see if he can control his behavior. That way you could test out all the things you may be worried about ( drills that involve contact maybe ) in a less intimidating situation to the child, and where he can't possibly hurt the other kids. Then if you feel that he can handle a class, have him come on a night when you think there will be low attendence. From what I read I really dont know how much success is possible. It must depend on the degree of his PDD and which type he has. I would be more than happy to ask some people I know if they might have any ideas if I could maybe have a little more info about his PDD? .... wish I could help more...

    T
     
  8. Knight_Errant

    Knight_Errant Banned Banned

    I think karate is going to be VERY good for this kid. Some weight training wouldn't hurt either.
    I've worked with LOTS of kids like this in the duke of edinburgh's award program. Nine times out of ten the best thing for them is to give them something whereby they can achieve something and show people, and more importantly themselves, that they are not stupid and weak.
    Doing something that isn't academic is also good.
    Example: I had one kid who got kicked out of ALL his classes. Yet, when I gave him the kit demonstration, he could remember all the kitlist perfectly, first time and had no difficulty comprehending compass use.
    Can I be alone in thinking that school is not the healthiest place for these guys?
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2004
  9. timmeh!

    timmeh! New Member

    nope!
     
  10. KickChick

    KickChick Valued Member

    I highly recommend this book if you are seriously interested in teaching karate to students with "behavioral disabilities".
    http://store.yahoo.com/hhpstore/kichypbeh.html

    KICKING HYPERACTIVE BEHAVIOR A FEW GROUNDRULES by Alex Levin alex@hedgehog-hill.com


    "When I was asked to become a regular contributor to this newsletter (http://adhdnews.com), I originally thought to myself, Sure, why not? I¹ve been writing and teaching people about ADHD and other learning disabilities for quite some time. And the solutions that I've discovered through teaching karate are very much worth sharing. But this would be different, as here I would be preaching to the choir, writing for an audience that was highly involved with the subject already.

    Unlike most of you, I¹ve no one in my own immediate family who has issues with hyperactivity or attention deficit. Nor do I have any sort of compelling story that explains why I¹ve made this battle my own.

    On first glance -- and even second -- it would appear that I¹d nothing personal to gain by the world¹s acceptance of, or focus on this challenge. Yet, while working in politics, working as a teacher, a social worker, an agency coordinator, a trainer, or even as a karate teacher, the issues of hyperactivity and attention deficit have always been placed before me in such a way that to avoid dealing with them would have proven neglectful. However, not until I sat down to write this article, did I even realize just how deeply my life-long involvement with this issue has run, and how much that involvement has taught me

    Not only has it taught me to be a better teacher, but more importantly, through my involvement with this issue, I've come to understand much about human behavior and even more about the human spirit and heart.

    AT A FUNDAMENTAL LEVEL, PEOPLE AREN¹T MUCH DIFFERENT, ONE FROM ANOTHER. DESPITE OUR INDIVIDUALITY, WE ALL POSSESS THE SAME NEEDS AND THE SAME CORE METHODS FOR GETTING THOSE NEEDS MET. We even share the same aberrant traits. We are all quite capable of sociopathic; histrionic, and borderline behavior just to name a few. To one extent or another we are all paranoid and neurotic, as well as learning disabled and hyperactive. Each of us could go through the menu for every condition and check off one characteristic after another, saying, That¹s me, that¹s me too. What separates one person from another is not whether we ever manifest the characteristics, but rather to what degree those characteristics shape who we are and how we express ourselves.

    A GREAT OPPORTUNITY FOR LEARNING ABOUT HUMAN BEHAVIOR OCCURS WHEREVER EXTREMES ARE EXPRESSED. In the extreme, reactions and relationships become magnified which make observing them much easier. When working with students whose behaviors are more within the normal range, we can be challenged to figure out what¹s needed because their expressions and reactions are more subtle and harder to measure or even detect. But when we realize that in a given situation what¹s needed by everyone is no different than what is needed by those on the more extreme end of the spectrum, meeting those needs becomes much easier.

    Conversely when faced with a more extreme behavior, if we ask what¹s needed here, we¹ll discover that the need is no different than it is for the normal student. What¹s needed for people anywhere on the spectrum of human behavior is needed by people everywhere along that spectrum.

    More specifically, when talking about getting attention -- it¹s not that some kids need it and others don¹t. All kids need attention. All kids need to be cherished; they all need to feel a sense of belonging. How they express that need and learn to get that need met is another story and -- I think as you have probably experienced -- one of degrees.

    I think if there's anything unique about the way I teach, it probably has to do with the fact that I start off with the premise that everyone has the same basic needs and all behavior is an attempt to get those needs met. I temper that notion with a belief that fair and equal are not the same thing. Appetites are not standardized and what is a meal for one person may be just a snack for another. If Fred needs two hours of individualized attention and Bob needs but one, giving them each an hour and a half out of fairness is not being fair to either one at all.

    I have taught martial arts for nearly twenty years and have had great success working with those labeled as ADHD (We continuously receive referrals from doctors, guidance counselors and therapists who have seen the difference karate has made in the lives of children that others have often given up on).

    AND MY SUCCESS I BELIEVE IS BASED ON TWO PREMISES:
    1. ALL CHILDREN HAVE THE SAME NEEDS
    2. YOU MUST MAKE THE CHILD YOUR PARTNER IN DEALING WITH BEHAVIORAL ISSUES.

    I don't imagine that I am unique in this, as many karate schools can boost similar success, but unlike other karate teachers, because I have spent many years working with learning disabilities and remedial education, I can tell you why it works and how to stack the odds in your favor.

    * * * * When I got into publishing, I thought my ties with the world of human services were finally broken. However, after publishing WELCOME TO MY DOJO, A KID¹S INTRODUCTIN TO KARATE, when we took it on the road to sell, an amazing thing happened. Invariably, parents would come up to talk with me about whether karate would help their sons and daughters deal better with their behavioral issues. In interviews with the media that also seemed to be the subject that reporters wanted to talk about. And then I began to wonder whether Janetsan, the highly energetic main character in the book would have ended up on Ritalin if she hadn¹t found karate?

    To answer parent¹s questions on karate and ADHD, I created a pamphlet called KICKING HYPERACTIVE BEHAVIOR, A GUIDE FOR PARENTS. More questions were asked and the pamphlet grew into a booklet and then ultimately into a small book. (see above link I added! --"KC")

    As a reader of this newsletter, you probably are already fairly well versed in the basics. You already know that while medication might help some people, it's never the entire answer. And you probably also know that punishment is a very non-productive method of curbing a child¹s challenging behavior, as typically the child¹s acting out isn't about willfulness. The fact of the matter is that the child is not any more happy with his or her behavior than the adults -- the parents and the teachers -- in his or her life. In fact what we've learned over the years is, as I¹ve said earlier, that the real solution lies in making your child a partner in dealing with his or her behavioral challenges.

    ("KC":I agree --->) Karate isn't like a pill: take a couple doses and you're cured. In order for it to work, two things must happen. First, the parents must be actively involved -- and secondly, the child must be willing to buy into it.

    Alex Levin whose column will appear in this space monthly has been head instructor at the School of Movement in Center Conway, New Hampshire for almost two decades. He is an inducted member of the World Martial Arts Hall of Fame. In 1998 he was chosen by the Hall as Karate Instructor of the Year. Levin also has an extensive background in education. He has led dozens of workshops and seminars for educators and social service workers throughout New England. He has also published numerous magazine articles and several hundred newspaper columns.

    I found this to be highly insightful and hope you have too Mrs. Owt! ;)
    Contact Mr. Levin via email ... I am sure he would be more than happy to answer any further questions you may have!
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2004
  11. Tika

    Tika New Member

    KE: Weight training? The kid is only nine. Are you talking about PDD and ADD or just ADD? Not trying to argue with you, I just read about PDD and it just seems more severe then a behavioral problem.
     
  12. Mrs Owt

    Mrs Owt New Member

    I knew I could count on you MAP'ers! Thanks very much for your personal experiences and views as well as the great resources Kickchick! I will be following them up. I am fortunate because Ihave the entire summer to get a game plan together plus I will be meeting with the boy and his mother before classes start so Tika's suggestions will be implemented. KE, I think you may be right about school for some of these kids, maybe we can't form them and push them into out mould of "succesful" but need to explore different options with them. Thanks again.
     
  13. acrawford

    acrawford Ki-Ken-Tai no Ichi

    My nephew has both delayed development and ADD, About one year ago he started TQD at a local school(not the one I attend) He has been propmoted twice there, and now is getting all Top marks in school. He also has taken it upon himself to help out with the house work as best he can and he can now read like a champ. Before TQD he was a telivision veggie.

    All I can say is that is really helped him come into his own.

    Even with the stress of having both his parents deployed to Iraq at this very moment.
     
  14. La Mancha

    La Mancha Valued Member

    I know nothing about the medical side but I do know he deserves a chance.
    Go ahead and if it doesnt work out at least you tried.

    David
     
  15. Knight_Errant

    Knight_Errant Banned Banned

    How can you say 'just' a behavioural problem? These things are serious issues and I happen to have some direct experience of that kind of thing.
    Karate is a fighting art, but ultimately I feel, the mixture of physical, mental and spiritual attributes you need for it are about being a better person.
    And no, I'm NOT going all long-haired on you :p
     
  16. Tika

    Tika New Member

    Im confused :). Not sure if we are agreeing or not. Might be, you tend to confuse me. :D Then I confuse myself and I get all lost.

    I think that involvement in MA would deffinitely help the kid a lot , but Im just curious as to how severe his condition is. If it is very severe, and its not just behavioral (when I said behavioral I didnt really mean it such a wide scope, more towards ADD behavior, like lack of attention span ), where the kid might hurt himself or other children, the situation needs to be approached slowly and with caution.
     
  17. Mrs Owt

    Mrs Owt New Member

    I think you are right on the slow and cautious approach. The mother and I have a distinct understanding that if it is not working out or he becomes aggressive he will have to leave. I just spoke with one of my friends today and she has extensive experience working with autistic children. She has offered to guide me and even help out in the kids classes once in a while (she also studies at our dojo).
     
  18. Tika

    Tika New Member

    Sounds excellent:).

    I wanted to tell you, I visited my old sensei last night (now a shihan!!!). I watched class and I recognized one of the brown belts. He was probobly about 10 when I last saw him. He has very severe ADD/ADHD as well as some other disorders (not as severe as your new trainee, but along those lines). I remember how difficult it was holding his attention in kids class. I really went off into his own world at times. But anyway, I saw him in class last night and wow, what a difference. He is about 16 now, tall and skinny as a rail, but what POWER and body control. He is doing great. He still gets a little silly/out of control at times, but Shihan said he is easier to reign in now. I thought of your situation while I was being impressed by his improvement, so I thought Id share. :D I hope that you have success with him, MA can do so much for people.
     
  19. Mrs Owt

    Mrs Owt New Member

    Thanks again guys for all of your advice. Had a talk with the child's father last night and got a new insight into some of the problems. He says there are definite warning signs before aggressive behaviour begins and he has been very successful in heading off outbursts at home with his other children. He gave me some valuable tips on his son's biggest behavioural challenges. I am very optimistic that with the parents so involved and everyone trying so hard that we can help this little guy. His para from school has also volunteered to meet with me and give me some tips plus she said she would be willing to come to a couple of classes next fall to help him ease into the routine. So far, so good.
     
  20. bedens67

    bedens67 New Member

    Greetings, Mrs. Owt...

    A few things to offer, from having taught TKD to a child with Asperger's as well as working with at least 2 children who exhibited PDD/Autism Spectrum behavior even though they had not been diagnosed...

    First, maybe I missed it in the initial post, but did the parent indicate you might have a problem with aggression?

    Second, what I have found most common in the children I've worked with is a difficulty in understanding the social situation and structure as it occurs. For example, one child would yell at the top of his lungs when he needed the instructor's attention, even if the instructor was working with someone else. That took some time to work with him on. All he knew is that he needed to ask a question, so he did. Humor, especially sarcasm, may also go unappreciated. They may have a tendency to take things "as is" and not understand the reference. Along with the social problems may be difficulty relating to and playing with other children, especially those they don't know very well. This could cause some difficulty when pairing them up with other children in class for drills, etc.

    Also, these children have shown some difficulties in "putting it all together", especially in free sparring or other "non-routine" tasks... One child, when told that he needs to move laterally around his opponent, instead of going backwards all the time (while free sparring), he proceeded to make several circles around his noww-confused opponent, without making any attempt at striking. We said he needed to do it more, so he did. Same thing if we would suggest more kicking or punching.

    Common in the autism spectrum is problems with sensory processing. In other words, they could get overwhelmed by things in their surroundings that most of us have learned to tune out and ignore as "background". For example, if you have music playing during class, that can be distracting. So can movement in their peripheral vision and other distractions. You could expect that if you are working with this child in one group (or one-on-one, but in a class setting), you might experience this. Doing private lessons might give you a rough idea of what they can do, but remember that it's a sterile environment and may not be an indication of how they will react with other stimulation around them.

    Routine... Many autism spectrum children are VERY routine oriented. Some to the point of obsession, and if there's a variation, they just don't understand and get uncooperative. I remember the parent of one child relating that their child had a fit one morning because they put on his right sock before his left sock and had always done the left sock first. :) This can correlate to class with the class routine. If you always do things in a particular order, he could become accustomed to that, and a change in that routine could prove problematic. Conversely, no set routine could be as problematic, as he wouldn't know what to expect next, and there would be no comfort in that.

    Related to the sensory processing is tactile sensitivity. This is where something about the feel of things the child is in contact with is just unnerving to them to the point of irritation. It could be anything from the type of cloth and the way it feels against their skin, to the texture of the floor on the bottom of their feet. I remember hearing from one parent of a child with autism (not in martial arts) who was ecstatic when she found some socks without the seam at the toe, as that seam, even with the sock turned inside out, would drive her son nuts to the point of his refusal to even wear socks. It could also be seen in not wanting to be touch by others, even if it's an instructor helping correct a technique. With this in mind, the child may always want to wear pants or a long-sleeve shirt under their uniform. It's their way of assuring that they are in contact with something that is non-irritating.

    Other sensory integration problems could accompany the tactile sensitivity, or might exist in place of it. Or not at all. As with anything, you get varying degrees of complexity and severity and no absolutes. The other sensory issues you could see are with their vestibular and proprioceptive systems.

    The vestibular system, in essence, is their recognition and reaction to their place in relation to the earth. It will be demonstrated most often as problems with balance or general "clumsiness". You can see different extremes in this, where they could either be opposed to movement, as they are unsure of their movement. Or you can see the other extreme, where they are constantly in motion, trying to stimulate (self-stim) their vestibular system (which is related to the inner ear). It could also appear as difficulty navigating exact changes in direction, especially if they need to turn 90 or 180 degress in a kata, etc.

    The proprioceptive system is essentially where their limbs are in relation to the rest of the body, as well as the ability to distinguish the amount of pressure they are exerting or receiving. Obviously, this will appear when you see them having difficulties placing a punch in the same place consistently, or have a problem understanding or "feeling" what kind of stance they are in, repeating it consistently, or making corrections to it. They also might have some problems distinguishing how much pressure they are applying or are receiving. If you do self-defense that involves any joint locks or other joint manipulation, this might be something to watch. They could either apply too little or too much pressure to a student, and not be aware of it. Consequently, they could possess either a very high or very low sensitivity to the pressure they are receiving. Consequently, they may feel "pain" at a level before others would, or you could lock them up tighter than a drum and they could be looking around wondering what kind of pizza they'll have after class... until it's too late and damage is done to the joint.

    My son, while not diagnosed with anything in the autism spectrum, has all three sensory integration issues. Because of that, I did my 2nd dan recommended thesis on teaching martial arts to children with Dysfunction in Sensory Integration. If you (or anyone else) would like a copy of it, let me know. If this child does indeed have some sensory integration issues, it might point out some helpful hints. The ultimate resource for sensory integration in general is "The Out-Of-Sync Child" by Carol Stock Kranowitz. She also has a companion book called "The Out-Of-Sync Child Has Fun" which is a collection of games and such for children with DSI. Both are highly recommended.

    While PDD is in the autism spectrum, don't expect the child to behave like Dustin Hoffman did in "Rainman". That character was loosely based on Kim Peek, who has a tremendous ability to remember facts, among other things. That certainly is not typical of what you will experience.

    While it may have had something to do with age, we had one student (who was 8 at the time) who would not practice his kata to the point of perfection / improvement. We would tell him to do his kata, and he would. When he was done, he didn't understand why he needed to do it again. He just did it, after all. Also, if you're going to teach him a kata, since he could be very routine oriented, you want to make sure you have your best technician teach them. Changing it later could be very difficult, since it was learned a particular way.

    Wow, I've really rambled on, haven't I? :) Sorry about that... Hopefully it will give you some ideas. Just remember that these are rough guidelines of what you COULD experience and certainly not a guarantee.

    If you want to contact me off-board, feel free. I'll be more than happy to offer any guidance.

    - Bert in Springdale, Arkansas
     

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