Hatsumi Grapples Multiple Opponents to the Ground

Discussion in 'Self Defence' started by flashlock, Jul 18, 2007.

  1. KempoFist

    KempoFist Attention Whore

    Oh I have found some people who are willing to train. But they are usually like-minded towards my ideas, and simply with to meet up, roll/spar a bit, share a few tips and grab a beer. Good stuff, nothing wrong with that, and I'd love to. Shinbushi and Rubber Tanto are two people I'd love to cross hands with sometime, perhaps once I've saved up enough money, and can just take a trip across the world on a whim (very expensive to get to Australia it seems.).

    But the ones that spout off completely asinine nonsense, and make the biggest stinks about how awesome and more intelligent their training is compared to everyone else, are the ones who slink behind their monitors sniping from the safety of their keyboards. Someone like Ben....well I could probably not even pay a dime out of pocket, and get funded by Bullshido for a scientific expedition like that.
     
  2. Zannen!

    Zannen! Banned Banned

    Fair enough. Martial arts training (real training that is) is hard work period, no matter what art one studies (maybe even in my own art there are people that don`t work hard at it and well, they also aren`t very good).
     
  3. Keikai

    Keikai Banned Banned

    this works both ways though, and in fact its usually uninformed and misguided youngsters who shout their mouths of, pretty much the same from the BJJ/MMA crowd, if you look to the more senior people on here, they quietly watch the pages go by, dripping in info when needed and are very much unobserved.

    no one with any quality behind them parades on here saying their training is better than other people, its the weenies like Shadowronin who were quite happy to do it for everyone, same goes for the 'aliveness' camp, its the weenies shouting their mouths off, not the inteligent ones.

    A lot of people believe in their art, whether its alive or not, whether it was born in 1940 or not, whether its good on the ground or not, those are the people who you should engage in conversation, but your attitude on here just makes people look in and leave after the train wrecks happened, and it goes on and on and on and on etc etc etc blah blah blah.

    Whatever you say to a lot of people on here its going to go straight through one ear and out of the other because they enjoy what they do, does that offend you so much that some of these guys enjoy their art?

    Obviously some on here are not the best ambassadors for the BJK, maybe its because they love the art so much and are a bit misguided, maybe they just get irritated with people telling them their art is bullshido, wears a bit thin after a bit really but you dont help yourselves either, you dont show yourselves as good ambassadors of your art either, more so as ambassadors of bullshido if you get my meaning, i mean RT can hold both courts without looking like a nob or a bullshido wannabe, on here he talks a lot of sense without the need to be a nob.

    just my 2pence worth........
     
  4. Zannen!

    Zannen! Banned Banned


    I don`t think that Bullshido really says the art sucks, it probably is commenting on the multiple people that don`t train realistically or run around in hoods and play ninja without really trying to develop real fighting skills. I could be off base here, (historical issues aside) but if most people would practice harder and become more focused on getting better perhaps most of these problems would go away.
     
  5. KempoFist

    KempoFist Attention Whore

    I understand what you mean Keikai, and whether anyone has noticed or not, I have tried to tone myself down. But guys like Ben seem to get under my skin, and I'm starting to believe that he may just be seeking to do just that...though it's probably more likely he's trying to get a rise out of Shinbushi since he regularly calls him out by name in his threads.

    There seems to be a lot of level-headed Bujinkan members here, and it's reassuring to see that. Unfortunately, those that disagree with the conventional wisdom of this board seemed to have just drifted away, and probably have surrounded themselves with like-minded people, so they can joke about how ignorant those idiots online are.

    I do disagree however with your contention that telling someone else their training methods are flawed is a bad thing however. I know some bash Ninjutsu or the Bujinkan as an art, and I know that I have in the past on quite a few occasions, but honestly that isn't my intention....that's just rather a gut reaction to those who claim to tie the art into their flawed training methodologies.

    If we don't call BS when we see it, then BS will thrive, and possibly spread. It's been said numerous times that it's not about convincing the delusional, but rather helping others spot and avoid the delusional before they become indoctrinated as well. I still disagree, and feel I can quite literally beat the stupidity out of someone if I can just get them to meet me on the mat (or wherever), but that just may be naive optimism on my part :p
     
  6. Keikai

    Keikai Banned Banned

    i may have come across to you badly with that point then, no it is good to share advice but when it gets to the constant bickering about 'aliveness' 'kukan' and other things people dont get a grip of then its just going to be a wreck!!

    its in the BJK deeply, there are a lot of crap people out there, there are people who are lucky to train with the cream (me!! :D ) so you get to see things work, if our art has lots of crappy instrcutors/ students/ youtube wannabe film directors dont let them bother you, they just hang themselves, a lot of the time once a student goes out into the world they see how crap their instructor is and they find another one, (my guys go everywhere they can :D ) only time will tell, you only see the crap, a lot of us are lucky to see the quality, have a look around ;)
     
  7. Banpen Fugyo

    Banpen Fugyo 10000 Changes No Surprise

    I'll fight you, though I admit I have trained in the Booj or genbukan in a while, other than with friends. I've been focusing mostly on MT recently, though I promise just to use lunge punches and finger locks ;)
     
  8. zendog

    zendog Valued Member

    BBT is taught in a particular way by the grandmaster and those around him. The BJK is his organization. If someone believes that the way the art is taught is inadequate for what they need, they really should go study something that is more suited them.

    Your attacks on the BJK are about the organization itself and the training methodology that comes down from the very top, even though you have no understanding of either.

    I'm not concerned with what you think or say about the organization. I do consider it bad form that you're one of the most prolific posters in the ninjutsu section when you don't study the art and your message is always the same.

    I like to read Ben Cole's posts. The guy cowrote/translated one of Soke Hatsumi's best books. Any time he posts something, you post like crazy afterwards deriding anything he's said. You're like the heckler in a comedy club who's too drunk to know when to back off and doesn't care that he's ruining the venue for everyone, because that is part of his goal.

    Your goal, shared by a few others, is to shut down any real discussion about BBT in the ninjutsu section or anywhere else, and to throw enough mud at the art to influence those who might be thinking of trying it for themselves.

    You aren't the only one who can call BS.
     
  9. KempoFist

    KempoFist Attention Whore

    Sweetness!

    Incorrect. Ben may be talking about an art I have not studied, but he talks about training methodologies I HAVE practiced, and he talks about technique that infringes upon my sphere of knowledge (grappling). Human beings are human beings no matter what art you study. We all have the same general anatomical form. Claiming that you can do a technique that will work because you do X style, when I KNOW it won't work because I KNOW it's a lemon technique because if it wasn't....well then I'd be doing it! It's what I do. I find the best way to overcome another person through grips, and positional control. If you say something that runs contrary to what I know to be true, expect to be called on it and defend your views.

    I have given Ben more than enough leeway to show he is not completely full of BS, and in fact have offered myself up as a guinea pig. Any other legitimate martial arts instructor would have thrashed me good, and sent me home packing by now. God help if someone came into my gym telling my coach he didn't know what the hell he was talking about. One of our beginner to intermediate students would give them a hard dose of reality before my coach would even have to consider getting off his ass.

    Do we see Ben doing such? No. He just sits back, and spouts complete nonsense, making not only a mockery of himself, but of his art, and unfortunately his instructor. I believe this is the reason why OTHER high ranking Bujinkan instructors such as Dave take such issue with him, and if you care about your art, you should to.
     
  10. flashlock

    flashlock Banned Banned

    I think we're on the same page, DS.

    I haven't had a chance to train with RubberTanto again, but we're planning on it...
     
  11. flashlock

    flashlock Banned Banned

    It's a joke, jeesh, don't be so thick!
     
  12. Banpen Fugyo

    Banpen Fugyo 10000 Changes No Surprise

    Even I'M tired of the same old "it comes from the top so it MUST be true" crap. Jesus people, think for yourself please. Ugh I really want to say more but I know i'll be flamed into oblivion.
     
  13. flashlock

    flashlock Banned Banned

    Well, let's hear it... who cares if you're flamed - join the MAP Most Hated Club.

    Works for me.
     
  14. Banpen Fugyo

    Banpen Fugyo 10000 Changes No Surprise

    Thing is, people all over the x-kans know me, and my real name, and already search for my name on forums and talk crap behind my back. I get enough flak as it is.

    Sad how that works, eh?

    Unable to speak out against the very organizations i trust... :(

    HE SPEAKS AGAINST THE TRIBE! ALL WHO OPPOSE MUST PERSISH!
     
  15. flashlock

    flashlock Banned Banned

    That's your own fault, then. Leave the organization or quit complaining.
     
  16. Banpen Fugyo

    Banpen Fugyo 10000 Changes No Surprise

    Which is why I'm not training in either one anymore. I love the style, but the politics are overwhelming.
     
  17. flashlock

    flashlock Banned Banned

    Then what is stopping you from speaking your mind right now? :confused:
     
  18. KempoFist

    KempoFist Attention Whore

    I'd love to hear what some say about Shinbushi. Considering the amount of political flack I caught just within a local Kempo organization, I could just imagine the kind of waves stirred up within an organization of such a size as the Bujinkan. :rolleyes:
     
  19. Banpen Fugyo

    Banpen Fugyo 10000 Changes No Surprise

    Burning bridges isn't an interest of mine, unfortunetly.

    I still believe one day everything will change, I have faith.

    :rolleyes:
     
  20. Keikai

    Keikai Banned Banned

    i have never heard anything about him, certainly no rumours going round, maybe he's not important enough to generate any notice.
     

Share This Page