I know it is widely claimed that Hatsumi has a rank of 4th Dan in Judo. I was just wondering if there is any record of who his instructor was, or even if he had a competition record in Judo. You would assume a 4th Dan Judoka would have competed at some point?
Can you send us over some examples of Judo records in the years he should have competed as an example?
I was more interested if it has been noted in one of his biographies. I assume a lot of research has been done on Hatsumi, with much of his life having been put under a microscope. I would have thought that details such as his martial arts history would be heavily scrutinised seeing as he is the founder of the Bujinkan?
Because I am interested in Hatsumi's changing attitude towards resistance in training. I am aware that the Bujinkan originally sparred, but Hatsumi decided to get rid of sparring. This strikes me as an odd attitude for a 4th dan judoka who also trained in western boxing.
Ah ok, I didn't get that message from your first post. When exactly did he tell you, or anyone that sparring was ok? And when was it he decided not?
According to Don Roley So it appears that there was at least some limited sparring going on in the Bujinkan Hombu dojo, but Hatsumi got rid of it because he felt foreign students were developing bad habits (corrupting the art?). This seems to mesh with the accounts of Hatsumi giving up on Judo when he realised the guys he was training at the American army base were defeating much better trained local Judoka by virtue of superior strength and conditioning, apparently Hatsumi felt that technique should count for a lot more than strength and conditioning, so he then set out to find an art where this was the case.
There was also no way for Hatsumi to guarantee the safety of people living in different countries trying to train in his art.
Fortunately Don Roley is not the offical spokesperson of the Booj, in fact IMHO he is something of a tool.
Are you suggesting he is a poor source. I checked his background and got the impression he had spent a large amount of time living in Japan and training in the Bujinkan. Are his bios misleading?
You almost had an epiphany. Almost. If one can understand why Hatsumi sensei gave up what he learned and dedicated his time to mastering what Takamatsu sesnei taught him, a lot will become clear. If one can understand why Hatsumi sensei also learned/shared with others outside the Takamatsuden, a lot will be clear. If one looks at how he trained his Shihan in the Takamatsuden, a lot will be clear. Without knowing and understanding something about all of these things, too much will be unclear to the extent that it might be better not to try learning the Takamatsuden. ps-the above is not an attack on Kave personally nor meant to be arrogant. If more people out there really understood these things, their own training in these arts would necessarily take on a certain direction or they would seek out a different path.
So you read his bio (written by himself?) and think he is the source? Cool. Do you train in the booj?
If he is not qualified to speak about the Bujinkan tell me, and tell me why. Honestly this whole thread has been me trying to get information and you trying to shoot me down, which is fine. Lets put our cards on the table, my reason for seeking more information is purely because the Bujinkan fascinates me, I don't train in it, haven't trained in it, and have no future aim to train in it as I am happy with my current art. What is your motive for trying to shoot me down?
Probably your opening post reads like your trying to discredit hatsumi sensie's judo. I'm not saying your are or not, but that's how it read to me and possibly others
Yeah, not interested in discrediting Hatsumi. I was more interested in trying to gain understanding on how and why his attitude towards contact in training took the path it did. If I wanted to try to discredit the Bujinkan I would not attack a point irrelevant to Ninjutsu like the quality of Hatsumi's Judo, I would attack something on the historical accuracy (like whether Takamatsu's teacher Toda existed). But I really don't care about ninja lineage wars, and am more interested about what is taught today.
There is a well known photo of a young Masaaki Hatsumi showing off a pocal from some judo tournament. Cant seem to find it on-line but its in one of his books. There are Bujinkan Dojos that do sparring like exersices. Its not unheard of or "forbidden". Regards / Skuggvarg
Yes there are, they are a small minority however. The Bujinkan Hombu Dojo does not spar, and nor do most Bujinkan Dojos. Obviously Hatsumi does not encourage sparring at the Hombu Dojo, and does not think highly of sparring.
I don't think your fascination is a positive one. So I don't want to feed you information on demand to build your image or impression on this.
Your verbiage in the OP is very similar to attacking Toda, you seem to attack his Judo lineage. Demanding proof of this and that, claiming to know what he feels or believes or instructs when in reality none of your points are true. And likely cannot be as you are outside the art looking at it with morbid fascination. You have your opinion already, and are trying to back it up now with sources and facts but they aren't the reality.
If you have ever been there you would understand why. Out if interest how do you know this? Yes a number do LARP around but I don't think you can say how many pressure test or not. See my comment above about being there to see why. I recall him talking about the virtues of Judo and that type of training when I on a trip there. It's not black and white with the Bujinkan, it's all dependent on personal training. It may be this massive international organisation but when you look closer you will see that you can't generalise about it and that is mainly due to the type relationships students build with their teachers.
