Please elaborate on what he is missing. Also, I'd love to hear as in depth a comparisson between his and IHF as you're willing to give. thank you.
What are the characteristics of his system and how does it differ from other hapkido systems? If possible, compare it to specific federations. Thank you.
I don't know what "Hoi jeon moo sool" is-- is that the same as "ho shin sool"-- (which is the general term used for self defense at my old school). Also-- what hapkido systems are you comparing his to? thanks.
Hoi jeon moo sool is a style of hapkido from Jae Ok Myung. (the older brother of Jae Nam Myung) It is a more harder style than will say hankido. But uses more circles in there movement. Like they will do a tech. and spin out or away from the person. It still has the fluid movement that you would see in hapkido. Here is a site you might like. http://hoijeonmoosool.free.fr/
The IHF HQ does not mandate members schools to teach Hankido or Hankumdo. This decision is left up to the individual school instructor. Some instructors chose to teach them as part of their guep curriculum, while others offer it to their dan students. The International HKD Federation stands for the International Hapkido, International Hankido, International Hankumdo, and the International Hwal Bup Federations. The above mentioned entities fall under something called Jae Nam Musul Won. So, they offer certification in Hapkido, Hankido, Hankumdo, and Hwal Bup. I do not teach or train in Hapkido these days, instead I'm more focused on Hankido, Hankumdo, and Hwal Bup.
Thanks for the info guys, I have to admit I'm quite confused by some of these statements. Makes me wonder if M.Gagne has changed/adapted/expanded his styles since coming south or if I'm just not understanding. We've been doing 5 spinning basics from very early on (I'm terrible at language or I'd say what they are called, will try to remember after class tonight and update) Block block spin chop low block spin chop chop punch spin chop (shoot, I knew all 5 of these the other day, maybe I'm getting alzheimers) M.Gagne spends considerable time stressing circle techniques, flow like water, letting the opponent/partner flow around - simply redirect their forces slightly instead of a hard block, etc. Are these not the beginnings of hankido? The hapkido is the wrist twists, arm locks, knee, etc right? We also work on ground (now that we have mats) and he stresses ground work and that we will spend a lot of time learning how to defend, fight, kick etc from the ground. Just the other day we did a drill where one was on the ground and the attacker was not. I feel much more comfortable on the ground as a result of that and doubt that the average attacker could get thru my guard now. It was really quite easy to apply what he taught. We've also worked on a few clinches, one where from a clinch we wrap an arm firmly behind the partner/opponent and then do that throat strike thing to make the other guy bend back, then crash him to the ground. We've done a little preliminary sword work. I've expressed interest in the staff and been told this will come later in the course (I did not get the impression that 'later' ment after black belt, though I could be mistaken.) Now remember, I'm just a newbie and hardly know what I'm talking about so please don't hammer me if this sounds goofy, but it does seem to me that he's teaching what you say he doesn't teach. Maybe he's adapted...or am I just not understanding?
The block, chop, spin, chop techniques are Jeon Hwan Kwon Bub. (circling strike techniques) Not exactly the basics of hankido but pretty close. You could call them basic hankido striking techniques. A bit more basic than that are the three basic spinning moves (jeon hwan bub, young nyu bub and shim hwa bub). I would call the set of twelve basic self defense techniques characteristic for hankido (there where hapkido and hankido differ a lot). They are called: Kwan Jul Ki Bup Chi Ki Bub Sib Ja Ki Bub Nae Wae Ki Bub Kyeo Rang Ki Bub Mok Kama Bub Mok Keokki Bub Oh Kkae Too Bub Joong Pal Too Bub Hwae Jeon Too Bub Pal Mok Ki Bub Pal Bae Ki Bub (you might see them romanized in different ways). You might want to check out the two topics on hankido in this same section.
I don't know Master Gagne's curriculum so I can't comment on what he teaches but it sounds like your learning various Kwon Bup techniques.
That's the plan! Had a good one last night too. GF went. Came out saying 'ohh, all that tumbling was fun' Along with other stuff we did falls last night basic fall front fall back fall basic roll standing roll standing back fall. knee walking in 8 directions often followed by a back roll. These are called 'nak bup' right? (I really need to work on this language stuff, I'm sure I'm getting it wrong) Towards the end we were rolling and diving from one end of the dojang to the other. She was all smiles. That roll fall should be a requirement for anyone doing fast sports (motorcycles, horses - stuff you fall off of at speed.) If my little brother had known this he probably wouldn't have broken his neck last summer when he crashed his dirt bike.
Please descibe this lock. I've studied under three diferent hapkido masters now (including Gagne), and with regards to ground-fighting armlocks, I've only ever been shown variations (and very little variation there) on what the Gracies use to win their matches-- the armbar using the pelvis as the fulcrum to break the elbow. I know other armlocks that end up on the ground, but that is the only one that starts from the ground.
I'd like to qualify my last post-- you can do a great deal of hapkido armlocks on the ground, but the only one I know of that requires being on the gournd is the one I described. I don't count normal standing hapkido techniques, performed on the ground, as "ground techniques"-- that's just common sense.
I'd say it's an oma plata. It's using the legs as the fulcrum for a cop lock. A technique that can't be done standing since you nead to use the legs to do it. Of course it can be applied in a "sacrifice" sense like a flying armbar where you both end up on the ground.
Is this the technique? http://bjj.org/techniques/bjjfighter/gi/guard/omoplata/ The last 3 pictures show different variations but the original omaplata is above those.
