What are the origins of traditional Hapkido? Is it an off-shoot of Aikido, other Korean arts, Ju-jitsu, etc?
Supposedly Hapkido, or rather Hapkiyusool (etc) is a version of Daito Ryu Aiki Ju Jitsu, a system of Ju Jitsu that kept to its own path. At least that was what the system as taught by Choi Yong Sul was. After that different practitioners developed it along their own lines. EG Ji Han Jae, with his Sin Moo Hapkido, he is supposed to have added indigenous kicking techniques from Taek Kyon etc. I use the term 'supposed', because it's all a bit contentious to some folk and they generally get their Pajamas in a twist over it. One thing for sure, it is definitely NOT two thousand years old and various styles of Hapkido have developed from the original, some of which are very different in their vision as to what Hapkido is or isn't.
Origins There are two basic lineages of Hapkido! 1. Choi Young Sul ( Original Yu Sool = Yawara or JuJutsu from Japan, etc. ) 2. Ji Han Jae ( Added Kicking, Spirtual Arts, Weapons mainly from Korea Etc. ) All others came from one of these 2 men or thier students. Take someone like Pellagrini or some others and that made a HKD type system of thier own. Having never reached a Master's level in "Real HKD" before creating thier own HKD off shoot. HKD today seems to be just a buzz word added to whatever goes. Simply put many people create thier own system but its not TRUE HAPKIDO. Anyone who studies from one of the two originals mentioned above would know that I'm making a true statement. These systems borrow from HKD but are not HKD. Hapki, Stuart Rosenberg 4th Dan KHF Ulji Kwan 5th Dan Sin Moo Hapkido
Take a look at this article by Rob Diericks... great reading and covers some of the controversy: http://www.martialartsplanet.com/magazine/styles/hapkido1.htm Greetings and welcome to the forum. There's many people here of various backgrounds and we all like to share in a positive way. There are even some us, myself included, who have trained in Traditional Hapkido and in Combat Hapkido under GM Pelligrini. I am more than happy to share ideas and discourse about my training. But, I have let it be known that I truly like GM Pelligrini and respect his teachings and the man himself. Now, before that riles anyone up, I will again mention that GM Pelligrini makes it very clear that "Combat Hapkido" is not Traditional Hapkido. I agree. I have trained in both and like them both. There are lots of political in-fighting that comes along with Korean Arts... and Hapkido has its fair share of them. Combat Hapkido is not traditional and has never pretended to be.. but GM Pelligrini is recognized as a Hapkido master (World Kido Federation just presented him with his 9th dan... under GM In Sun Seo). You can check all of this out at www.ichf.com Anyway, I hope that any discussions about GM Pelligrini and the ICHF will be handled open-mindedly and maturely. Here's a couple of previous threads that get into some questions about GM Pelligrini: Hapkido…what kwan are you? http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2734 Changing Hapkido schools that have styles: http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11054
I have to agree with American HKD that hapkido is a buzzword lately and many people are sticking that name to their art. I am seen some really funky homemade styles using hapkido in their description in the past 5 years. However, I am not referring to GM Pelligrini because I have never trained in his system and I hear many conflicting reports on him. I'll just wait to experience him before I judge. I think jujitsu has been getting the same buzzword treatment too...so hapkido is in good company.
Dear Thomas, No dis-respect was intended to Master Pelligrini's Martials skills, knowledge, or personallity. I only used his system as an example because it's the most popular off shoot using the name Hapkido and to illustrate what has become the watering down of the Hapkido tradition and origins of Hapkido. This explanantion may help clear up confusing facts for the original question asked. Sorry if I wasn't clear enough. Hapki, Stuart
Watering down huh? Geeze how can Thomas or any other person studying Combat Hapkido NOT take that as an insult. What you call watering down others call refining. Combat Hapkido is a blend of JKD, Brazilian Jiujitsu, Taekwondo, Kuntao Silat and incorporates realistic weapon training. Now everyone ask themselves is JKD bad? No. Is Brazilian Jiujitsu bad? No. Is Taekwondo bad? No. Is Kuntao Silat bad? No. Than how can an art that utilizes them be bad? I can almost guarantee that most naysayers to Combat Hapkido aren't learning the "traditional" art anyway. Meaning the kickless (or very few kicks) taught by Choi. So we can pretty much say anyone that doesn't is not really learning Hapkido either and it's been "watered" down with techiniques from Taekyon or other martial art depending on which Hapkido you take. Most people that criticize Combat Hapkido really have no foundation to their arguement because it all boils down to one thing: it's mainly because THEY DON'T LIKE IT BEING CALLED HAPKIDO. To which I just point them to Shakespeare "What's in a name? That which we call a rose by any other name would smell as sweet."
MaxG, I agree with you in a sense that all MA are good! I too have studied other systems including JKD to various degrees and gotten much out of it. I do think as you mentioned Hapkido should be called Hapkido not something else. Bruce Lee did'nt call his system Combat Wing Chun if he did I'm sure many would'nt like for the simple reason and my main point is IT WOULDN'T BE WING CHUN ANY MORE. Calling a blended art Hapkido when it only borrows in part from Hapkido is my complaint and I feel it is very deceptive and capitalizing on Hapkido however marketed. As far as JKD goes it's known to be a blended system and so accepted that way. Hapkido is not a blended system of whatever one feels it should be. Why because it has specific techniques and philosophies based on the Aiki Justsu principles that define it as a specific system. Some styles teach more kicks then others but it's all HKD. Hapki Stuart
Thanks for the clarification, American HKD... I understand where you are coming from. GM Pelligrini's use of the word "Hapkido" has incensed many, many people, especially the older Traditional Hapkido crowd (and I know that you know how the political aspects of the Korean Hapkido Federations and how new schools/kwans are treated, especially when they are non-Koreans). The base of the system is indeed "Hapkido", but it has been modified, added to, and changed to the point of it being a very different martial art than Hapkido. Hence, the reason why the word "Combat" was added... to distinguish between 'Traditional' and this new form. There are probably no two words that irritate Korean stylists more than "Combat" and "Hapkido" strung together to describe a style of martial art. - "Combat" riles people up and they say "All martial arts are for combat" or "is he saying Hapkido isn't good for combat?" -"Hapkido" makes people think he's teaching traditional Hapkido, which he isn't (and he makes no bones about this... stating very clearly that "Combat Hapkido is NOT Traditionasl Hapkido") Adding fuel to the fire, GM Pelligrini's Combat Hapkido Federation has been adopted by GM In Sun Seo of the World Kido Federation... and Combat Hapkido has been recognized as a legitimate "kwan" under Korean law (Cheon-tu Kwan). The traditionalists of the World Kido Federation really don't like this, and this granting of a (well deserved) honor has really set the fiery politics a-rolling! In the end, GM Pelligrini choose to use Hapkido as his base because of his love for the Korean arts (especialy Hapkido) and he did it at a time when Hapkido was virtually unheard of... the popularity of Combat Hapkido has actually aided in the popularity of Traditional Hapkido, especially on the world scene (esp. in magazines, seminars, demonstrations, etc.). He chose to use "Combat" to say "It's NOT traditonal Hapkido". If he had used a completely different name... I wonder how things would be. It's too late now to change, so I just hope people can look at it open-mindedly... and maybe come to some of the seminars or check out saome local classes (come visit us, please!). For me.. even if he called it "Lame Ballerina-Fu", I would still be honored to train under him.
Dear Thomas, Yes, I see you understand my point exactly. I will always learn from any good techniques regardless of style. I'm sure Combat HKD has many good techniques from various good sources. I also have cross trained in a few differant Arts and curently cross in BJJ & Kali. Hapki Stuart
