Hapkido History and 9th/10th dan"?

Discussion in 'Hapkido' started by iron_ox, May 24, 2013.

  1. iron_ox

    iron_ox Jungki Kwan Midwest

    Hello all,

    Judo is a pretty known and measured thing. Started by one man, standards agreed on.

    Hapkido IS the same way....founded by one man, and with a group (4) of men at its highest standard. There are no 10 or 11 dans...unless they made it up, in which case it is something other than Hapkido.
     
  2. Thomas

    Thomas Combat Hapkido/Taekwondo

    Out of curiosity, who do you see as the "a group (4) of men at its highest standard"?
     
  3. Twisting

    Twisting Valued Member

    i'm curious as well about the criteria.
    the highest rank directly awarded by the founder?
    the best fighters?
    the best 4 who could demonstrate application?
    the four who have the most comprehensive knowledge of technique or curriculum?
     
  4. iron_ox

    iron_ox Jungki Kwan Midwest

    Thomas,

    We have done this dance before.

    The four 9th dans of Choi Dojunim are, in order:

    Chang Chin Il - Current Dojunim

    Lim Hyun Soo - Jungki Kwan

    Kim Yun Sang - Yong Sul Kwan (Designated "Korean Dojunim" By Choi Dojunim's Daughter in Law)

    GM Lee - Kim Yun Sang's training partner - now deceased


    Those are the only 9th dans from Hapkido's Founder.
     
  5. iron_ox

    iron_ox Jungki Kwan Midwest

    These are the 4 men that were awarded that rank from the Founder.

    There is particular criteria that Choi Dojunim used to award this rank, all the particular's are currently being collated.

    Best Fighter? I'm sorry, and no disrespect at all, but that comment is absurd. While I am in no doubt that these three men can certainly fight extremely well, their rank is based on criteria that only includes the ability to fight.
     
  6. Thomas

    Thomas Combat Hapkido/Taekwondo

    Sorry Kevin, no dancing here... I was just curious which four you were referring to (can't recall if we spelled it out this way before), and it seemed like it would be a relevant piece of information for the thread (and it is, as this would key links for a direct line back to the founder)

    And this is where the water gets muddied though and probably represents a whole bunch of material for another thread (including stuff that has been hashed over many times before)...

    There are many people who look at Choi Dojunim as being the founder but who also feel that much of the creation/promotion of "Hapkido" as a system comes from other pioneers who may or may not have earned 9th dans from Choi Dojunim (e.g. notably GM Suh Bok-sup, GM Ji Han-jae and GM Kim Moo-hong). (I am using "GM" as the honorific in lieu of a more specific Korean term here by the way)

    Personally I don't get as hung up on it. I think having the distinction of the "kwan" of each Hapkido group does a good job of distinguishing what time period their development comes from and I am satisfied with a direct connection to Choi Dojunim, even if it doesn't come through the four you mention.

    I think it also needs to be considered that the notion of a "9th dan" was developed later in the context of Hapkido. If I recall, for a time 7th dan was the highest. Add to the mix that many of the senior Hapkido instructors get along pretty well (I've seen the various 'grandmaster gatherings in Korea" and seen the respect they accord one another) and have their own system of (Korean) seniority based on who has studied longer and what their relationship was/is. I would be curious as to whether GM Im Hyun-soo sees GM Ji Han-jae as his "Hapkido senior" or not, and whether he sees GM Seo In-sun as his "Hapkido senior" or not - to me, those would be very telling responses.

    Regardless, we can probably agree that Hapkido rank needs to have, at some point, a direct line to Choi Yong-sool Dojunim.
     
  7. Thomas

    Thomas Combat Hapkido/Taekwondo

    I couldn't resist cracking open a book and looking up some info...
    According to Kimm's History of Korea and Hapkido, he received this in 1985, shortly before Choi Dojunim passed away. (p.391) It mentions that he holds a 9th dan in Taekwondo and had done private Hapkido lessons with Choi Dojunim. It doesn't specifically list him as holding a 9th dan (and if he does, where did his previous ranks come from? ) (pp.391-393)

    According to Kimm's History of Korea and Hapkido, Im Hyun Soo joined Choi Dojunim's school in 1965 and left for a bit to help Kim Young Jae open a school, returning to Choi Dojunim in 1972 to train directly under him. Choi Dojunim spent most of his time at Im Hyun Soo's school until 1984 (stroke). Choi Dojunim promoted him to 9th dan. (pp.333-334)

    According to Kimm's History of Korea and Hapkido,Kim Yung Sang and Lee Yong Soo trained with Choi Dojunim from about 1973-1985 by visiting for various periods of time. In 1981 they were both offered the title of "Doju". They refused. In 1983 they were offered 9th dans and refused. In 1984 they were promoted to 9th dan. In 1985, they were offered 10th dan - they refused. In 1985, Choi Dojunim passed away.

    GM Kim Yun Sang was offered the "Doju" ship from Choi Dojunim's daughter-in-law in 2002 and accepted. (p.399) (Side note - I would question what authority she would have to make this promotion - as far as I recall, she had no standing in Hapkido)

    To continue along with a line of thought already started, this needs to be looked as far as whether you are talking about "Doju Ship" or actual promotion to the highest rank in the system (generally reckoned as 9th dan)

    According to Kimm's History of Korea and Hapkido, Choi Dojunim offered the title of "Doju" to Kim Jung Soo, Kim Jong Yoon, Yu Byung Don, and Hong Seung Gil, each of whom refused. (p.391) It would seem that lineage through them would also be at the highest level

    Also, according to Kimm's History of Korea and Hapkido, in 1970, Choi Yong Sool Dojunim held Hapkido promotions under the Dae Han Kido Hoe - he assigned 7th dan as the highest rank and promoted Kim Moo Hong to that rank, and later promoted Shin Sang Chul to 7th dan as well. (pp.311-312). I think one could argue here that these 7th dans would be equivalent to the later 9th dans as the 'highest ranks' in the system and valid lines to the founder. You would also have to consider Suh Bok Sup as well - he was a 6th dan in the 1950s and the most senior student. It would seem that lineage through any of these would also be at the highest level.
     
  8. iron_ox

    iron_ox Jungki Kwan Midwest


    Thomas,
    People can "feel" whatever they want, the reality is that there is NO contribution to the material of Choi Dojunim that was added to by these men. Promotion is one thing. But non of these men were awarded the rank of 9th dan by Choi Dojunim.
    Suh Bok-sup - 7th dan
    Ji Han-jae - 3rd dan (maybe 6th dan, not confirmed)
    Kim Moo-hong - 4th dan

    They did not earn 9th dans.

    I just said there was four 9th dans, not that there had to be a connection through these 4 men.

    The water gets muddied, and I say this with all sincerity, when people that have 1st dans make claim to higher rank or give higher rank.

    Having a 1st dan in 1958 and claiming a 10th dan 40 years later is akin to having a kindergarten education and claiming that it translates to a PhD 40 years later.

    While people may have a "connection" to Choi Dojunim, it does not mean that they have ANY standing, in rank or technique.

    Not so. Kimm's history is simply incorrect, and misleading. I have not found a single 7th dan - an actual 7th dan, with a certificate, still living in Korea that is not in Daegu (or at least awarded that with still living there while Choi Dojunim was alive), or students moving outside Korea - see Rim, Jung Bae; Chung Kee Tae. 8th Dan ranks were apparently reserved for those men still in Daegu, and the four 9th dans were more specific.


    I cannot speak for Grandmaster Lim, and will not. But in regards to who studied "longer", he is the most senior in the world, bar none.

    I have found publicly that there is a great deal of tongue biting that goes on when many of these men meet. Regardless of the outright lies they tell the rest of the world.

    Thomas, and I say this with all deference, why do you continue to see Seo In-Sun as anyone with standing in Hapkido? He has a 1st dan. Trained in his brothers self styled Kuk Sool Won (which Seo In-Sun has apparently made mention in public that his brother lied about its creation tale) and has no more rank in Hapkido at all with anyone of standing?


    Sure, it is nice to see that people have a direct line...but if the direct line is a junior rank, then their rank is still a junior rank...and that needs to be pointed out.

    Every time I make these assertions,I am labeled arrogant, pompous, elitist, but the bottom line is there is simply no argument around it. Rank is rank, people have it or they don't.
    I think anyone is comfortable if someone calls what they do some name, but to include Hapkido, you must have standing. To say you have a direct connection is simply not enough...unless you are making this assertion with no standing, but to infer that a connection at 1st dan is standing is very strange at best.
     
  9. Twisting

    Twisting Valued Member

    lol. i think you are being pretty disrespectful as i was asking what your criteria was, not asking who was the best fighter, nor stating that it is part of your criteria. saying you mean no disrespect doesn't mean you aren't doing it.

    YOU are the one who decided to throw out a general statement with no elaboration of 'highest standard'. therefore, i was asking what YOUR criteria was.

    in fact, considering that we do a MARTIAL art, combat ability as an general rule would not be considered an 'absurd' criteria to others, practicing muay thai, or judo. or bjj or kyokushinkai, enshin, etc.
     
  10. iron_ox

    iron_ox Jungki Kwan Midwest

    Please make sure you mention here that this "history" comes from a very political standpoint written by someone that has a "hapkido" background with little or no connection to Choi Dojunim.

    And according to my own research, the material in this book is incorrect at best and based on information that was apparently not well cross referenced. Most of the men listed in this book are found in Google searches, yet the majority of Choi Dojunim's higher ranking students - not interviewed for this book - still living in Daegu are not easy to find....and Kimm apparently didn't look.


    Well, Kimm was not part of the selection process for the Dojunim with Choi, and never spoke to those about this process. Central figures included Grandmaster Lim, and Choi Bok-yeul (Choi Dojunim's Son). The ceremony was conducted on Korean National TV, KBS, Grandmaster Lim was the master of ceremony's. I have seen his 9th dan certificate, No 1, and know it was written well in advance of the Dojunim Certificate; which I have also seen. He does hold a 9th dan in Taekwondo, but that is all I know.


    Kim Young Jae was Choi Dojunim's senior instructor in 1965, he would hardly leave to open a competing school with Grandmaster Lim. Although when Grandmaster Lim open the Jungki Kwan, Choi Dojunim closed his school and Kim taught at Grandmaster Lim's school, where Choi Dojunim taught out of as well until his death.
    Kimm seems once again to have made a mistake with his facts.



    Rubbish. Very incomplete. Not only did they visit, but built a dojang in Geumsan for the sole purpose of training with Choi Dojunim. A dojang that was closed in 1986; then reopened a few years ago as a public training facility for the Yong Sul Kwan.
    There is no one that can recall Choi Dojunim ever offering them the title Doju...to them or anyone else until after he came to New York and returned to Korea where there was a discussion held.
    There has never been any mention of 10th dan from anyone I have ever spoken to, including students of Choi Dojunim that started training as early as 1949.

    This is one this in this post you and I will agree on. But it is more of a curiosity to me than anything else.


    Yet none of these men have 9th dans from Choi Dojunim. In fact, two of these men are students of Grandmaster Lim.



    Interesting. And I am going to doubt the veracity of this claim by Kimm. While I know that Choi Dojunim held public grading using the Dae Han Kido Hae, I will have to actually research with those that got rank during this period if this is correct;as there in 1979 there were no ranking members above 6th dan in the Daegu Kido Office, and the planned 8th dan test had to postponed.


    Why would have to argue that when this is all supposition and 9th dan ranks were awarded? Many of the men you have mentioned deserted Choi Dojunim after 1968 and had gone on to do their own thing with Ji and others.
     
  11. iron_ox

    iron_ox Jungki Kwan Midwest

    I didn't issue the 9th dans. They were issued by the Founder of Hapkido. I know some of the criteria, but asking about "best fighter" is bizarre...how does anyone measure that and why would that be a criteria in itself?

    The highest standard in Hapkido is the highest rank offered by its Founder - 9th dan - of all the men that trained in the art under the Founder - only 4 got them.

    Your post never mentioned or asked for MY criteria.

    And I think my post was crystal clear when I said the 4 men that were issued 9th dan from the Founder.
     
  12. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    Looks like a battle of "Old Testiment" vs "New Testiment".

    This usually happens with the founder of art passes away, everyone starts showing their "own versions of a Karate Koran"
     
  13. iron_ox

    iron_ox Jungki Kwan Midwest

    How so? The Founder of Hapkido only died in 1986; three of his highest ranking students are still alive, the vast majority of the high students are alive, I feel it is important that Choi Dojunim's legacy be protected.
     
  14. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member


    No offense, but what accounts do you hold are good read out there?

    Is Thomas' resources as good?


    The point I am trying to make:

    Thomas had some good points as well as yourself.

    To readers of this thread, especially past and present Hapkido practitioners could get slightly confused over the recent posts from you two.


    (An up to date lineage chart with rank could be a refreshing medium)
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2013
  15. Thomas

    Thomas Combat Hapkido/Taekwondo

    (bold face added by me) - I will disagree a bit here. Choi Dojunim studied DRAJJ - what became "Hapkido" was an evolution of that with contributions from people such as Suh Bok-sup, Ji Han-jae, and Kim Moo-hong (and others). I think this is where the cloudiness comes in as far as what Hapkido is, if you define based on the 'original' teachings of Choi Dojunim, I'd have to say you are looking at his version of DRAJJ... if you leave the evolutions off, you don't have "Hapkido".

    I know you study under GM In Hyun-soo, what makes what he teaches different from DRAJJ? Speaking from a 'devil's advocate' view, what makes what he teaches "Hapkido" and not Korean DRAJJ?





    Hapkido is a big art, with lots of practitioners. There are students of students of students of the art. I still assert there needs to be a connection to Choi Dojunim in some direct way, but there is still a lot of room for variety, especially consider the periods of evolution of what is accepted as "Hapkido" over the years.


    I look at GM Seo In-sun from the point of view that he studied Hapkido (and earned a 1st dan from Choi Dojunim and possibly a 3rd dan as well) and then was instrumental in the whole development of Kuk Sool Hapkido - later Kuk Sool Won which I see as a direct line of "Hapkido" (despite the nationalistic claims that the Suh/Seo brothers espoused.

    I see Kuk Sool Hapkido/Won as a similar development of a line of Hapkido evolution much as Sin Moo Hapkido or any other Kwan. It's "Hapkido" with a different flavor. That the Suh/Seo brothers were key individuals in the World Kido Federation throughout Hapkido's development adds to my belief that they fit in where they are supposed to be, in "Hapkido".

    Beyond that, on a personal level, I've been on the mat with a lot of martial artists (and a lot of HKDin) - GM Seo In-sun is top-notch. I also like his Hanminjok Association for being so open to all related groups and for providing guidance.

    As a Combat Hapkido student, my lineage runs through (Master Robert Gray and then) GM Pellegrini, who is a student of GM Seo In-sun (and earned his 6th, 7th, 8th, and 9th dan from him). I like the guidance he provides and can see the influence in the newer evolutions of Combat Hapkido. Since I trust GM Pellegrini and believe that his Hapkido background is solid (earning ranks from GM Wollmershauser and GM Myung Kwang-shik), I trust that the guidance GM Seo In-sun gives is in line with the rest of his background. I know you will disagree with much of this, but look at it from the point of view of a loyal and very pleased student of the system.
     
  16. Thomas

    Thomas Combat Hapkido/Taekwondo

    No offense, but so far, I find Dr. Kimm's book (History of Hapkido and Korea) to be quite good. He provides his references and seems to do a good job on translation. The pictures are good and include a lot of dan certificates, some doju certificates, and other good stuff.

    My Korean is decent but not at the level to translate a lot of the documents (especially with the mix of Hangeul and Hanja and the calligraphic script) - I defer to his abilites (native Korean and high level English).

    edit - book available at http://www.hanmudo.com/merchandise

    That's a strong claim. Just to put some parameters around your research, can you give a bit of insight on what other sources you are using? How much time have you spent in Korea? How is your knowledge of Korean (Hangeul and Hanja)? I don't ever recall you mentioning a high level study of Korean?

    I'd love to see even a partial list of your sources.









    Can you back this up with a source?
    Perhaps the training registry between 1965 and 1972?




    Did you ask this question specifically? In English or Korean? Did you use a translator?

    Again, I defer to Dr. Kimm's book. I trust his sources and his language ability. I can see no benefit who could get by making up any of this about the 10th dans.

    And that brings us back full circle to that old Hapkido"nut" that won't go away - what is Hapkido?

    Is it the teachings of (Takeda Sokaku's) DRAJJ as transmitted by Choi Dojunim, or is it the various combinations/influences of other arts and ideas being blended to create a whole new one, specifically by adding fancier breakfalls, kicks, Chinese forms/hand strikes, Yudo, etc? The art that was filtered through influences such as Suh Bok-sup, Kim Moo-hong, Ji Han-jae, and even people like Lee Joo-bang, Seo In-sun, Suh In-hyuk, Myung Jae-nam, and so on is also "Hapkido", isn't it?
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2013
  17. iron_ox

    iron_ox Jungki Kwan Midwest

    No Thomas, he studied with Takeda Sokaku, we don't know what he learned from him.

    Yet, no one can actually say what they "added", including yourself. Certainly not high kicks....none of them has even said they added to the hand techniques.....
    Evolution? Since 1986? I await any material that was "added" that fits Choi Dojunim's original technical parameters.


    You have said this time and again, but provide nothing that indicates "evolution" from any students of standing. I have never studied DRAJJ, only Choi Dojunim's material which seems very different from the DRAJJ I have seen in many cases.
    The cloudiness comes from individuals of little standing making up material - which had nothing to do with the art and calling it Hapkido.

    Grandmaster Lim (how he chooses to Romanize his name fyi) is Choi Dojunim's longest training student, he teaches what he was taught, which Choi Dojunim called Hapkido, what has anyone added to Choi Dojunim's material to make it "more" Hapkido? So far, other than some kicks that don't fit techniques, I have never seen any hand techniques not already taught in from Choi Dojunim.


    Connection? Of course, but it must include reasonable training and rank - evolution as you call it can ONLY come from those that actually have learned the entire curriculum....sadly, there are very few of those, and none that I know that have ever advocated for changing the material to something else.



    I'm sorry, Kuk Sool Won is not Hapkido. According to its Founder. And even if a tiny amount of Hapkido is included, at the 3rd dan rank it would be a tiny amount.


    As Tomato Soup is a different flavor of a steak? They are not the same art, Kuk Sool Won may stand on its own merits, I don't know, I never studied it, but "an evolution" from Hapkido? How? The brothers have no standing in Hapkido - how can they have evolved anything? Please explain this?? This is the same with MOST of the other supposed "Hapkido Kwans".

    Thomas, are you intentionally being misleading? The Suh/Seo brothers took over a defunct branch of the Kido Hae...the "provincial" branch as it is called, and used it to give further credence to Kuk Sool Won, not Hapkido, it has only been since the split has Hapkido become an agenda item, and you know that. "World Kido" is a Seo/Suh creation that has no standing in the Hapkido community at all....especially through Choi Dojunim. In Fact, they have little standing in Korea at all.
    Again, the brothers are free to teach whatever they want, but to say they are have added in any way to Hapkido's "development" suggests they have standing in the art or trained with Choi Dojunim for any length of time or added to his material as a peer, none of which has ever been demonstrated.


    Again, I cannot comment on his ability to do Kuk Sool Won, but he has no real standing in Hapkido as a 3rd dan...and while I am glad that his organization provides what it does, to say it offers Hapkido rank to me seems disingenuous.

    Again, if you are satisfied with Pellegrini's material, that is fine with me. It has long stopped having a connection with Hapkido. If however you feel confident in the techniques, then that is fine with me. But I will say this, you cannot evolve what you have never known.
     
  18. iron_ox

    iron_ox Jungki Kwan Midwest

    In Hapkido there is only one Doju certificate, presented to Chang Chin Il Dojunim, does his book have THAT certificate?? It is the only one with Choi Dojunim's handprint.

    I defer to the men that were there, that speak Korean and English.



    Put the same parameters on Kimm's work. I speak to the men that were there, Kimm was not, neither was I, but I seem to have spoken to a damn sight many more than him. His seems to be a google search, mine has been through referral and introduction. Doesn't Kimm live in Baton Rouge? How much time in the last 30 years has he actually lived in Korea?
    No, I don't have high level Korea skills, but I also don't have a political agenda to support my own art, or connection to Hapkido that goes through Kuk Sool Won, and the Ji camp.
    Can you sight any other sources that are credible - like personal interviews that support much of this slanted leaning?

    When I finish the research, I will publish it. But having spoken to many people Kimm interviewed, it seems he failed to do much background before the interviews.


    You quote Kimm's book. Does he provide such material? I am speaking to the men that were there, I am building quite a registry of people who trained and how long, its slow work, but getting done one name at a time.
    Again, can you provide any sources that corroborate Kimm's work??



    Did Kimm do any background material for his interviews? Did he just call or visit?
    I didn't say he MADE UP anything - don't start that! But if my interviews are ever questioned...his should be too. What verification is he using? Is he simply reporting what he is told? It now appears that might be the case. I hope to not be that sloppy.


    Show me any material added to Choi Dojunim's material that works within the parameters of his principles. The only people that seem to question what Hapkido is are those struggling to get "back" to the original material, or stretching a claim of a connection to Choi Dojunim.
    Demonstrate how they added anything not already in the curriculum and there might be room for discussion, but again, most of those men never learned the entire curriculum did they?
     
  19. klaasb

    klaasb ....

    I am with Kevin when it comes to Dr. Kimm's book(s). The man clearly has an agenda and the book is very biased.
    I used to have to book, but sold it later on ebay. There was this one part where he gave his translation of a interview with Kisshomaru Uesiba about him receiving a letter from a Korean when his father (Morihei Uesiba, founder of aikido) died. The interview was very twisted from the original interview (done by the people from aikijournal).
    The Korean history part of the book is rubbish.

    Sorry, but I don't think we should use that book as a reference here.
     
  20. Thomas

    Thomas Combat Hapkido/Taekwondo

    Technically, you are correct. I am presuming that since Takeda Sokaku taught DRAJJ and Choi Dojunim was a live-in student of his for many years (supposedly) that he had learned that art. The old story of Choi Dojunim having a certificate and losing it on the train still rattles around in my head too. I haven't studied DRAJJ, but I hear it is similar. I have studied Aikido a bit and I can see the similarities to Hapkido.


    Thanks for the FYI (it's noted). I am not even going to open up the whole discussion on who came up with the name "Hapkido" and what it really means. If I recall, at the various attempt to unify the groups and re-test people (including the one in 1970 mentioned earlier), there were curriculum listed to cover the various ranks in Hapkido. It would be interesting to compare them to what GM Lim Hyun-soo teaches.

    Its founder has had a nationalistic reason for some of the "history" he has made up to market it. To be fair, there were (and still are) some Hapkido groups that market the '5000 year old martial art' or the 'the material came to them while meditating in a cave'. If you call a dog a bear, it's still a dog.

    If you look at what GM Seo In-sun has published (online and in books), he gives a more true history and shows the foundation of Hapkido in it.


    Well... you've said this a few times and I think it's a bit "too quick" of an answer.

    First of all, if you are really teaching a system, you really should teach the core fundation, concepts and techniques so that a student can use them by 1st dan. Material beyond 1st dan should be a smoothing of the concepts and learning to apply the material in new ways. From my experiences in traditonal Hapkido to 2nd dan and in Combat Hapkido to nearly 5th dan (next month testing) as well looking at various resources that show the curriculum to higher dan level, yes, there are new categories and new techniques to understand and become better at, but you should have the core of the art by 1st dan.

    As far as that goes, in the earlier years of Hapkido, it seems like rank was assigned more for the reason of given someone who was ready to teach a credential (e.g. 4th dan) and then later to recognize seniority. For a time, 7th dan was the highest rank. Even nowadays, it seems most groups have curriculum requirements through about 6th dan with 7-9th dans being appointed by "contributions" to the art.

    In many "traditional groups" promotion is sometimes very fast as well - it sounds good to say that a 9th dan has learned the "complete art" but really, how much have they learned since 6th dan (or even 4th or 5th) that is "new" instead of a maturing in the art and using the fundamentals that should have been learned by 1st dan.

    At what level is someone "learned" enough to "know" the art? "Learned" enough to "teach" the art?

    For yourself, I know you bounced around from a few instructors in your earlier years and now are with GM Lim Hyun-soo. I believe he has accorded you "instructor" rank. How long have you actually been studying his curriculum with him? Do you only see him for seminars and an occasional trip to Korea? Who instructs you in the meantime?

    Ideally those question should not matter - if you foundation skills from your previous "Hapkido" training enabled you to meet the requirements of being an "instructor" under GM Lim Hyun-soo, doesn't it seem like (1) other instructors are indeed preparing people well enough to understand the foundations of Hapkido and (2) that you should have a strong hold of the heart of the curriculum by the early dan grades?


    With no disrespect intended, no one cares if you approve or not.

    And to comment, yes I am. The Hapkido that I study and teach is geared for a specific type of client (predominately those looking for adult self defense and also for LEOs and Military). The core of the system is Hapkido's wonderful operating system. The rest is applying that system through a diverse range of needs and using ideas from other arts that meld into the operating system. It works.

    Being in a system that is mature, fun, and open minded is awesome. I can see why GM P stays away from wasting time on the "my art is better than yours" or the "my art is more pure than yours" arguments that people espouse. Training is better.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2013

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