Hanmudo=Hapkido & Judo

Discussion in 'Hapkido' started by DAT, Mar 21, 2004.

  1. DAT

    DAT Valued Member

    Has anyone studied Hanmudo after studying Hapkido. If so I'd appreciate a comparison. Or, just comments on Hanmudo. I have an opportunity to train Hanmudo or Combat Hapkido (Pellegrini style) in my area. Hanmudo seems pretty interesting essentially combining Hapkido with some Judo techniques as well as some other concepts. Check it out at:

  2. moogong

    moogong Valued Member

    I have always respected Dr. He-Young Kimm because he has never denied the hapkido connection to hanmudo like masters of other Korean styles. I would love to study Hanmudo but there are no schools in my area.
  3. Thomas

    Thomas Combat Hapkido/Taekwondo

    I have never studied Han Mu Do but I have studied both Traditional Hapkido and Combat Hapkido. Check out this thread for some comparisons: http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11054

    My basic advice would be to check out the two schools and try them both out. Join the one that best fits you... including atitude and competence of the instructor and style of training. I personally have found Combat Hapkido a very good addition to what I have learned previously.
  4. Hapkido

    Hapkido New Member

    whats the large difference between combat and traditional hapkido?
  5. Thomas

    Thomas Combat Hapkido/Taekwondo

    Check out the thread linked above, please
  6. Hapkido

    Hapkido New Member

    haha wow im blind sorry bout that
  7. I.L.E.

    I.L.E. New Member

    Hanmudo or Combat Hapkido

    Hello all,

    I'm new to the list and just found this thread posted by DAT. I would like to know if DAT check out the Hanmudo and Hapkido schools in his area. If so, could you post where are the schools located and who the instructor is. What is your personal opinion of the school and instructor.
  8. American HKD

    American HKD New Member


    From my perspective Han Mu Do means Han=Korean Mu=Martial Arts Do=Way.

    I have done some reseach into this Art and Hanmudo is Hapkido and Kuk Sool "Reorganized". Dr Kimm holds Masters Rank from Ji Han Jae & In Sun Seo he also has some rank in Tae Kwon Do & Yudo too.

    Hanmudo is not a new Art but another reorganization of the same material "A rose by any other name is still a rose".

    If you studied Traditional Hapkido you'd be getting the same Art for all intents and purposes.

    And Combat Hapkido is not really Traditional Hapkido it's a mixture of many arts including Hapkido but called "Combat Hapkido" for marketing sake IMHO.
  9. Thomas

    Thomas Combat Hapkido/Taekwondo

    It's never been advertised as traditional Hapkido (www.ichf.com), but Grandmaster In Sun Seo has recognized GM Pelligrini for his efforts (with a 9th dan rank) and with recogintion of Combat Hapkido as an individual kwan: Chon Tu Kwan. For more information on Combat Hapkido, or for any questions, I will be glad to address them on this thread here: http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16727
  10. DAT

    DAT Valued Member

    "Hanmudo is not a new Art but another reorganization of the same material "A rose by any other name is still a rose".
    If you studied Traditional Hapkido you'd be getting the same Art for all intents and purposes."

    I disagree with that statement...to a degree. While HMD does have at its core HKD, the big difference is the unique way it is taught. HMD has dismantled the curriculum and re-assembled it in a very well thought out manner that enables the student to learn high end concepts using basic understanding. It's hard to explain on paper. I would suggest that you discuss this with a HMD instructor who has had personal contact with Dr. Kimm in Louisiana. I'm sure he could explain it better especially if you have a KKD background.
  11. American HKD

    American HKD New Member

    Dear Dat,

    I have the Hanmudo curriculum tapes and the Hapkido2 book by Dr Kimm its exactly the same material. That's my source for my statement.

    What I can't tell from the book & tapes is the forms in the system. The book aludes to forms but there not shown otherwise it's pure Korean Hapkido.

    I also have the first Hapkido book by Dr Kimm its basically Ji Han Jae's Hapkido.
    I know this because I'm a student of Master Ji's and Dr. Kimm clearly credits Ji Han Jae for help in writing the book.

    Both are very good books and I would reccomend them, but the only thing different is how the material is organized as you say.

    I dont think the arrangement of the material makes it better or worse or higher or lower just different.
  12. DAT

    DAT Valued Member


    Let me ask you this since you have the HMD material and have a HKD background...how much more effective, how much more of a "complete" system is HMD, in your opinion, based on the additional judo type techniques that Kimm added to his original HKD training?
  13. American HKD

    American HKD New Member

    Dear Dat,

    I did'nt see any significant difference at all. There's no Yudo techniques in Dr Kimm Material that's not already in Hapkido.

    I'm not sure why you think HMD is Yudo & HKD mixed? Hanmudu is supposed to be all Korean MA together but it still seems like plain HKD to me with another name.

    Maybe the philosophy makes it different.
  14. DAT

    DAT Valued Member

    Well you would know better than me. One final question, what is your general opinion of Han Mu Do as an organization? I'm seriously considering it. My other option is an informal Combat Hapkido (Pelligini) gathering. I kinda like the CH because of its streamlined curriculum and a lot less breakfalling. What do you think?
  15. American HKD

    American HKD New Member

    Dear Dat,

    I'm sorry I have no personal knowledge of either Assoication but you can't go wrong learning Hanmudo or Traditional Korean Hapkido from any good teacher.

    As far as CH goes I know what I read in articals or the CH web site. I do feel it's not really Hapkido but stripped down version of Hapkido for it's core. (no disrespect intended) CH is mixed with other Arts like Wing Chun, Brazilian Jujutsu and Filipino Arts. So if you want to cross train in all of the above go for it.

    Last thought Jeet Kune Do ( Bruce Lee system) has a core of Wing Chun Gung Fu and Combat HKD has a core of Hapkido but neither of these systems are thier core Art! If you want the core of either of these styles you have to go to the sources.
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2004
  16. MaxG

    MaxG Valued Member


    You say that CH is a "stripped down version of Hapkido for it's core." Fine ... share with us your vast knowledge of Combat Hapkido. What is taken out? What is added? Explain how your arm/wrist/ locks are different. Have you taken any CH classes? Have you spent anytime actually studying the art? Or are you just expressing your opinion based on about half an hour of reading websites and a few articles? Wait never mind you actually already stated that "I know what I read in articals or the CH web site."
    Hmmm. I could probably have read about your style in about the same amount of time... Should I make a decision based upon that? No, because I know anything I say about a style based on that LITTLE knowledge would more than likely be wrong and very very presumptious.

    What skills can you learn in Hapkido that you can't learn in CH? Are those skills street-wise? I personally would never believe someone saying that a 180 degree spinning jump kick in the street is as effective as a low blast kick to the knee. How about those wall kicks that some traditional Hapkido schools teach? No thanks. I'll leave that stuff to Neo and Trinity thank you. Are wall jumps and flying kicks taught to US military? No. Any idea why? It's pretty simple really. Because it's unrealistic. It's good for show and flash but why train in doing a move that has so little practical application? Why not spend that time you were perfecting that wall jump or that flying kick into time learning ground grappling from BJJ or trapping skills from Jeet Kun Do? Why not spend that time learning stick arts from FMA? This is what imho GM Pellegrini desired when he created CH.

    I'm sorry to say that your posts seem to do nothing but bash other styles and from what I've read your knowledge of other systems is based on video tapes and books. Any martial artist can tell you that the books and videos out there tell 10% (IF THAT) of the true art itself.
  17. American HKD

    American HKD New Member

    Dear Max,

    Your post seems a bit like a personal attack doesn't it?

    Where was I derogitory here? I clearly qualified my answer explaining the extent of my knowledge? I did'nt mis-lead DAT in any way.

    It's too bad your overly defensive in this case.

    Moreover I stand by my opinions based again on clearly published info in Black Magazine, TKD Times, CH web site, etc. Mr. Pelligrini interveiws.

    Lastly having trained and dedicated 25 years in Korean Hapkido and being a qualified Master of Korean and Sin Moo Hapkido one might possiblily think I have some expertise and insights into Hapkido in general and in specifics styles. It's not so hard to figure out who's doing what after you been around a while.

    Lastly your info I have 2 years in Pikiti Tirsia Kali and the Inosanto blend and indeed studied BJJ and Judo grappling very good stuff. My teachers were Guro Allen Sachetti under Leo Gaje Jr as well as Tuhon Bill McGrath, and Master Lee Epperson in Gaijin Ryu JJ, BBJ under Carlson Gracie JR & Sensie Phil Porter.

    I spend my time well thank you.
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2004
  18. MaxG

    MaxG Valued Member

    I'm not being overly defensive at all. I am defending my art from your repeated attacks on it. In this thread you call it "stripped" down, in the Hapkido Origins thread you call it "watered" down, and you make a topic entitled "Not another system." in which you list Combat Hapkido. It's quite plain to anyone who can read that all you do is bash Combat Hapkido in nearly all instances.
    You continue to claim that it's called Combat Hapkido for marketing reasons. It has been explained to you that all it is is to set it apart from other Hapkido styles. Just like Sin Moo Hapkido's name set's it apart from others. Why are you being so critical of CH for doing the same thing that Ji Han Jae did? Why not be critical of ALL the different hapkido schools that choose to add something to their name? You apologize in one thread saying that you mean no disrespect to GM Pellegrini but then a few days/weeks later you go and post another statement saying his style is (I repeat) "stripped". It doesn't look like you're "sorry" to me when you continue to describe CH in less than positive ways. My posts seem more aggressive because I don't mince words. You make posts continuosly belittling CH in subtle ways. However "nice" you put it down on paper it still is an insult to myself and others who train in CH.

    And I'll repeat what I said earlier... Any martial artist can tell you that the books and videos out there tell only 10% (IF THAT) of the true art itself. Does someone with a Brazilian Jiujitsu book qualify them to speak on it if they study traditional Jiujitsu? Does somone who has a Shotokan book qualify to speak on it if they take Shorin Ryu? Just because you have studied Hapkido for that length of time doesn't mean you can effectively speak about ALL the kwans out there. But like you say it's your opinion, even if it is based on very little info and imho quite presumptious.

    And I would think In Sun Seo who studied under Choi and has been doing Hapkido for a lot longer than you and I and alot of other posters combined knows what he is doing as well. He has officially recognized Combat Hapkido and has promoted GM Pellegrini to 9th Dan. I would think that with his Hapkido expertise (which overshadows your's, mine and like I said nearly all others here) more than shows that CH is a very valid and effective art and deserves respect.

    I commend you for your dedication to the martial arts. However I think that one thing you missed out on in all your martial arts experience...

    Respect for your peers.
  19. Jointlock

    Jointlock Valued Member

    Not that I really want to get in between you guys, but I think you guys are getting mad over personal word usage. In interviews, GM Pelligrini says himself that CH is a stripped down version of traditional Hapkido, infact he's proud of it. He got rid of all of the things from Hapkido that he didn't think were good for self-defense (i.e. wall kicks, healing, etc). In my opinion, I don't really think that Pelligrini looks at the words "stripped down" as being a negative thing. CH is stripped down and added to and I believe that is what American HKD has been trying to say. Also, American HKD is not the only one who holds the opinion that using the name Combat Hapkido is for marketing reasons. Which, come on, if you think about it, it probably has a lot to do with why it is popular. If the art was called Pelligrini Do I'm sure we wouldn't have never heard of it, but that's just my opinion.

    American HKD, I've been down the road of disliking CH, and just recently I've given up my axe about it. I've met people online like Thomas and others who have had first hand experience with GM Pelligrini and speak very highly of him. In Thomas' case, this is even after he has trained in traditional Hapkido. Personally I like all of the things in original Hapkido (meditation, breathing exercises, healing, high/spin/jumping kicks, etc), for me those things make it a complete martial art. But, some/a lot of people don't want that or have the time to dedicate themselves to learning it, and there is nothing wrong with that.

    So, please lets stop the petty bashing and just share our opinions civilly.
  20. MaxG

    MaxG Valued Member

    The tone of his many posts regarding CH say otherwise... but if that is his true intention and not insulting CH and spreading ill conceived notions on what CH is, based on the few things he's read, I would have no qualms about it. But I think that everyone can agree that his posts on CH have been less than kind and he has admitted that (direct quote from him) "I am very passionate about this subject and get annoyed by it. I feel this is an important subject and many people are unaware of what Korean Hapkido really is and are mislead."

    Seems to me he's saying that anyone learning anything other than HIS approved styles of Hapkido are being "misled".

    While it might attract certain people based on the name I don't think it would actually keep them if the art wasn't effective. Don't you agree? I can speak from personal experience that the name had absolutely nothing to do with why I chose to stick to the art. I had already studied a traditional style before and wanted something without all the meditation and kata's. That is why I stuck with CH not because of a name.

    Also if you do translations of some of the other styles of Hapkido the same can be said for them. For example Sin Moo Hapkido translates to harmony and coordination between mind and body. Now someone see's this and can immediately recognize that there will more than likely be some sort of spiritual aspect to that particular style. Which would appeal to someone looking for that in their martial art.

    Let's face it if a Sin Moo Hapkido instructor announced to a group of military guys training with him for a weekend seminar that part of the training regimen would be deep meditation and wall jumps and hand stand kicks... he's not gonna get very far. In fact some might even walk out. People go to different styles for different reasons BUT THAT DOESN'T MAKE THEM ANY LESS EFFECTIVE OR VALID.

    I agree completely. My wish is to be able to come to these forums and not have someone speak ill of any particular style (mine included). We recently had a traditional hapkido black belt come in and try our style for a week since he was visiting his sister (who was a student at our school). I could tell from his reactions the 1st few days that he was in the same category as American HKD. However as the week progressed and he started learning different variations on how to do things but at the same time how similar CH was to his style of Hapkido, his views changed. He had nothing but good things to say about CH by the time he left. I think everyone should at least try something before they criticize it and when they do try it keep an open mind like this particular martial artist did.

    Bottomline:To each his own. You do your thing and I do mine. I won't insult anyone else's style and I expect the same courtesy from them. And when someone here or anywhere else belittles,falsely accuses, or generally insults my style, I will defend it just like I know anyone else here would do for their own.

Share This Page