handlocks in hand to hand combat

Discussion in 'MMA' started by Vijay arun, Jan 10, 2004.

  1. Vijay arun

    Vijay arun New Member

    hi :) I have a doubt in hand to hand combat.When someone grabs your hand basically what I was taught to do is grab his hand near the wrist and make him fall on his knee.The technique was nice.But when tried this trick at my freind for practicing I could not do that eventhough he is the same weight as I am.Does this implies that my wrists or biceps or shoulders are weaker?
  2. Trent Tiemeyer

    Trent Tiemeyer Valued Member

    No, it implies perhaps that either your technique is flawed, or more likely, the technique itself may be flawed.
  3. pocketwarrior

    pocketwarrior New Member

    i find when i do these techniques in practice people tend to give a little, but when you try these with someone resisting and yet even worse full of adrenalin they are much much harder to pull off.

    The way i look at it is if he's not causing you any pain by grabbing your hand then leave it there because he has immobilised himself partially by doing so. I always strike first to distract or cause pain before attempting to get a lock off, it's much easier this way.
  4. Vijay arun

    Vijay arun New Member

    You're right.I don't know whether my technique is flawed 'cause I can't practice it on my master(acutually he teaches silambam,staff fighting).But it is correct that my freind doesn't cause me any pain eventhough I caused a lot of pain when I tried to grab him.I don't know why there is a strength to pain inverse relation.
  5. Andrew Green

    Andrew Green Member

    Many wrist locks don't work as well on people that don't want to be wrist locked as they do on co-operative training partners.

    Chances are, you're missing a key element. A person expecting to be wrist locked and not resisting it ;)
  6. Vijay arun

    Vijay arun New Member

    Ok fine.Then plz me how wrist lock a person trying to punch you?
  7. Andrew Green

    Andrew Green Member

    don't try it....
  8. SoKKlab

    SoKKlab The Cwtch of Death!

  9. Freeform

    Freeform Fully operational War-Pig Supporter

    If trying to apply a wristlock on a non-compliant person, try hitting them in the face a few times. This will distract them slightly, and if your lucky KO them and be more effective than the lock! :p
  10. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    The big problem is with how wrist locks are taught. In practice, a guy 'feeds' you the technique. In other words, he throws his attack intending to get grabbed and locked. That might mean he punches slower, leaves his hand extended longer, puts it at the right range, etc. These are all things that wouldn't happen when you're sparring or fighting. At that point, his intent is not to feed you a technique. It's to hit you.

    So now you've got the equivalent of a lemon used car. It ran great on the test drive on a warm, sunny day on clear roads. So you bought it. And now you're driving in a rainstorm. The windows leak, the heating doesn't work, and you're sitting in a puddle.

    When you're sparring or fighting, that's the rainstorm.

    Think about how often you've been taught how to counter a technique while it's fully extended. Now think about how long a technique is fully extended. Say a boxing jab. Fraction of a second. A reverse punch. Not much longer. Is it any wonder that you couldn't get the wrist lock on?

    You need more prolonged exposure than that. Like when a guy grabs you. (I have seen wrist locks work in that situation.) Or you smother him while his arms are still bent (rather than the split second when they're extended). So you get more than a parsec of opportunity to try and do your thing.

    Stuart B.
  11. dustIn credible

    dustIn credible Valued Member

    read the article psted by Sokklab that'll explain everything. (atleast for me it did)
  12. SoKKlab

    SoKKlab The Cwtch of Death!

    Thanks Dude, Glad to be of service. I should get round to re-writing that thing though, as I want to add new stuff to it....

    Basically the only way of catching 'Real' punches (Boxing style and not from ten feet away or from the hip) in a lock, that I have managed during training and in 'real' situations, is via a Reverse Arm Lock, snaring a Cross (Note not a Jab-too fast) between the arms/ guard and jamming it in two directions at once (wrist and elbow) and then rolling it into a lock.

    Works great, but is a tad nasty, so only when warranted. Also you have to be sure of the distance and timing, otherwise you end up swatting at arm and stopping the punch with your face (not good). Needless to say, it only works if you adopt a high guard and the cross just happens to go between your arms-don't try or reach for it.

    Other than that go with FF's sentiment of bashing 'em a few times and go from there.
  13. dustIn credible

    dustIn credible Valued Member

    Sokklab do you have any vids or pics of you sparring using that technique? I can picture what your saying in my head but video/pics makes it 1901234981273 times easier for me to comprehend.
  14. bigd

    bigd New Member

    I said this a million times,people are different,every body reacts different than every one else.but if you can't pull it off,which any technique in a real fight is hard to pull off.anyway,if your having a hard time to pull the wristlock off,go into something else,you don't want to spend all day hoping to get a wristlock.but as katsu jin kin,said we would have a better understanding,from your technique,if you had a vid,which wristlock is it.than explain,maby i or someone else,can help you.it sounds to me,your either doing IKKYO,or NIKKYO.just tell me than explain how your doing it ,and maby one of us can help.and the reason why you probally couldent do it ,is because he was resisting.which means strike him,shin kick,he should loosen up.but he could be flexible to.i had this studen Mitch,he was taking JISHIN-RYU JUI JITSU,and it was so hard to pull a wristlock on him, or any jointlocks ,he was so flexible,but you caould strike him and he went down.if your doing the technique right,just keep working on your friend til you get it.so if you ever encounter someone on the street,and you have the same problem ,youll know what to do.
    Last edited: May 24, 2004
  15. bigd

    bigd New Member

    and yes try it,it's better to be trained at it ,and not be trained at all.but,now it is hard to catch someones punch,and joint lock it,or wrist lock it,now it can happen.it's not impossible.but it will be hard to do,if the guy is a fast puncher,but if a guy likes to do haymakers ,and telegraphing his punches,it's a hell of alot easier.but when you train it.make sure your striking at the same time.strike simultaneously,as your putting him in the wrist lock,just to stunn the oponnent,cause 90% of the time if you don't strike they would just pull it away. but yes train wristlocks on punches.it's better to be trained at it,than not.start out,with slow punches,than into foreal fast punches.basically if you get hit you get hit.but youll get it.
  16. SoKKlab

    SoKKlab The Cwtch of Death!

    Sorry Katsu, no photos as such,
    I did do a line drawing of a Reverse Arm lock and then scanned it, which I tried to punt to MAP as an attachment, but it's too big...

    Suggestions...I could email it to you, but it'll take me a while, as I'm still transferring everything over bit by bit to my new poot.

    Once again to re-iterate. Wrist Locks from meaningful, real punches are extermely difficult to pull off.

    In fact I have never seen anyone manage it against a Boxing style punch (Even Ju Jitsukas and Aikodakas who have been training for years and years) that had any real intent behind it and that wasn't a slowed down either 'step and punch' or one of those daft 'Martial artsy' style punches.

    But of course, if your name is Clark Kent then that's a different matter. (And NO, I don't want to hear any daft arguments about it....)
    Last edited: May 25, 2004
  17. dustIn credible

    dustIn credible Valued Member

  18. Thomas

    Thomas Combat Hapkido/Taekwondo

    Sokklab: nice article!!!!

    On the topic of wrist locks, their use really should be determined by the level of the conflict as well. For example, in Combat Hapkido we have lots of wrist locks... and we like to use them to control or escort people with them. I would use a joint lock for example to separate to (high school) students who are fighting... I don't want to damage them, especially not bloodily, but I need to control them. Alternatively, if someone has grabbed me to talk to me and hasn't struck yet, I can use a lock and an escort.

    If the person has attacked, I will probably strike and possibly take them down. Once they are down, I can apply a joint lock to restrain them or escort them out.

    Slapping a wrist lock on off a normal speed punch is very difficult and not something I would try. The key for us is to soften up an aggressive attacker before putting it on or putting it on as a preventative measure.
  19. SoKKlab

    SoKKlab The Cwtch of Death!

    Thanks for the compliment Thomas,
    I agree wholeheartedly with the sentiments of your post. There's a time and place for wrist locks, it's just determining correctly when what where -that time, place, event etc are.

    They are, as you mentioned very good for controlling someone, hence why they and systems that have a substantial amount of them (Ju Jitsu, Hapkido, Aikido etc) are very popular with Law Enforcement personnel.

  20. Sonshu

    Sonshu Buzz me on facebook

    Also there are times when you need to force a wrist lock on as there is a small margin before the technique snaps on and hurts like hell.

    Arts often teach not to force a technique on, in a fight I forced one on and it worked great, basic segal type Aikido wrist lock (although I do it slightly different than the Aikido boys I have trained under).

    The result was what mattered, guy fell to floor and was in pain.

    Not pretty but saved me getting a kicking.

    Also the set up it a often over looked part of the whole technique also what you do with the lock when its applied, do you let go or carry on with the guy.

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