Careful what you ask for ubermint, I know at least a few women that would probably leave you in a body bag. IMHO, you don't always word your posts very well, they often come off as disrespectful. Your idea of self-defense is valid, but your own wording defeats your own points. One example I use for women's self-defense is a pettite and drop-dead gorgeous Israeli woman I remember from almost two decades ago. She carried at least three very sharp custom made knives concealed on her body at all times as well as packed a gun or two, pepper spray, and took your self-defense classes and weapons training, and being a very decent shot. I suspect some very bad things had happened to her in her life before that. ubermint, how does she fit in your model of self-defense for women? I should tell you that she is not unique among many women in the martial arts that I know of that often have also become instructors themselves and teach other women. ------- Hey KickChick, there is a very good reason why in this day and age one should seek training from a very good grappler. It does not have to be full time training, but at least enough to build experience with grappling. The reason is that grappling has become very popular, many attackers aren't totally unskilled these days, many of them know some grappling techniques, even if not formal training. The popularity of grappling means that it pays to know more than just a few escapes, it pays these days to know a bit about actual grappling too, standing and ground fighting.