Groundfighting for 'the street'

Discussion in 'Self Defence' started by idols11, Jun 3, 2015.

  1. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    Wrestling for the win!

    :p
     
  2. PointyShinyBurn

    PointyShinyBurn Valued Member

    There's some truth in this, but subs are the necessary or most efficient counter/route back to the feet in a lot of bottom position situations, especially against untrained opposition e.g. juji-gatame aginst the 'Frankstenstein' choke from guard
     
  3. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    What's the Frankenstein choke?
     
  4. PointyShinyBurn

    PointyShinyBurn Valued Member

    It's what I'm calling this, these days:
    [​IMG]
     
  5. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    A aaaah right, yeah it's definitely got a different name.
     
  6. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Ah yeah..."that" choke. :(
     
  7. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award


    cough cough - its Frankenstein's monster, Frankenstein was the scientist -


    BJ Penn does an awesome ''frankenstein's monster choke'' from mount, imagine a CPR armbar, but one hand on the throat, and one across the mouth, straight to high mount / s mount.


    ps - good name change, especially from guard!
     
  8. PointyShinyBurn

    PointyShinyBurn Valued Member

    It's named after the movies it appears in, rather than the character that performs it.

    Alternatively, Victor Frankenstein is the ultimate author of the monster's crimes and the choke is named after his moral responsibility.
     
  9. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Ahhhhh nice one, I've actually just loled irl!
     
  10. bigreddog

    bigreddog Valued Member

    Some skill on the ground is useful - the ground is not always first choice, but it may be forced upon you. And there are some scenarios when grappling is the best option and hence you may find yourself on the floor (e.g. if you are getting out struck on your feet, if you are dealing with someone you don't really want to punch in the face etc.)

    The amount of skill you need is hugely variable - if you are big and athletic, you may get away with much less skill than if you are smaller / weaker.

    I would agree with the posters above - go for improved position rather than subs - knee on belly is pretty practical giving you control, the ability to g'n'p and visibility of your surroundings. Get out from underneath and get on top, then get clear if you can.

    I'd keep at least one choke/strangle in your arsenal - lots of people out there on steroids/coke/PCP/god knows what, and they can take a lot of stopping - a strangle that shuts them down reliably may be the simplest (and most humane) option
     
  11. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    That should be writ large on the wall of every martial arts club, dojo and gym in the world.
     
  12. idols11

    idols11 Valued Member

    Yes my own thoughts are that actually positioning is the most important. If you don't have position you can't tap someone.

    And being able to get to your feet is important if you can't or don't want to fight on the ground.
     
  13. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    Mate, knee on belly from you IS a sub, and possibly murder.
     
  14. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    I wouldn't do knee on belly. It's a very uncomfortable position where it causes the person on the bottom to start thrashing. So you have to deal with arms and legs.
    There's also the worry of position asphyxia...but since everyone seems to be talking about chokes, I assume that's not an issue.
     
  15. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    I don't know, a quick well applied choke would probably minimise risk of PA because the fight goes right out of them.
     
  16. bigreddog

    bigreddog Valued Member

    Ben, I am as light as a butterfly as well you know :)

    But it's a fair point - it's pretty uncomfortable in and of itself
     
  17. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    Hence my favourite of taking the back, flattening them out and rest fully on one side of their back (kinda like a side control). No risk of PA there...it's only 1 of their lungs you're squeezing :evil:

    You know what has suprisingly worked well for me? Double wrist lock takedown and then a knee rest on the kidney (for pain compliance).

    A little safer than a German Suplex... :D but less fun :evil:
     
  18. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    I've successfully done double wrist lock to shin on face ride, worked really well.
    Positional asphyxia as a phenomenon is possibly caused by stress induced myocardial damage rather than mechanical asphyxiation, so length of hold and intensity of struggle may well be the important factors.
     
  19. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Knee-on-face is somehow I'd like to practice. Seems like a good one.
     
  20. Kurtka Jerker

    Kurtka Jerker Valued Member

    In practice, PA is normally due to a person who is obese or otherwise compromised being left cuffed in certain positions.
    Actually pinning someone almost never lasts long enough to asphyxiate someone. The stress of fighting increases the demand for oxygen and can further complicate pre-compromised lung function but that's about the extent of it.
    Unless you have a dogpile situation or significant size difference, that is. Even then, so long as the pressure abates when resistance is overcome, it's very difficult to asphyxiate someone with the act of pinning.
     

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