Ground fighting techniques

Discussion in 'Silat' started by Orang Jawa, Aug 19, 2006.

  1. Jerry Jacobs

    Jerry Jacobs New Member


    I don't know if there are any specific statistics on how often a fight goes to the ground. I am only speaking of personal experiences that I have witnessed. Usually when a fight goes to the ground it's because the fighters are either inexperienced strikers or one of them is a wrestler or some type of grappler and their gameplan is to take it to the ground. That's what most street fights consist of. It is not a self defense situation! It's usually 2 guys trying to show off how tough they are. Similar to many of the MMA tournaments that are going on today. I'm not saying anything bad about MMA, (it's a fun sport to watch) but it's not real fighting. Regardless, to be a complete martial artists you should train every single part of your body to become a weapon, and to be able to fight from any position you could possibly end up being in a fight. Like I said, in PCP our goal is to end the fight with strikes no matter where we are, standing or on the ground. As Tristan said, and I personally agree with him. I would rather stay on my feet, but you don't always get what you want in a real fighting situation.
    Jerry J.
  2. firecoins

    firecoins Armchair General

    2 guys bumbing egos and alcohol is a real fight, it just isn't self defense, not in the purest form. This is a stupid fight and should not be participated in if possible.
  3. fire cobra

    fire cobra Valued Member

    agree firecoins,it just hurts your hands or hurts your head! pointless! :)
  4. Rebo Paing

    Rebo Paing Pigs and fishes ...

    Matur nuwun Mas Tristan for the clarification!
    As for leeches, well that's the lot of a grunt ... hehe. We used to wear nylon/silk panty-hose to help with the leeches and ticks (and it stops chaffing as well, but gets a bit hot in the tropics ... yep, we really tough in recon) and when we in swamps a lot ... wear a condom as well, because the little buggers have been known to crawl up :eek:

    To clarify! We wore our fatigues OVER the pantyhose ... just in case you're wondering ... hehe the mind boggles :D

  5. Steve Perry

    Steve Perry Valued Member

    Go Down, Stay Up

    I've looked for this and haven't found it, so I don't accept that nearly all or even most fights will automatically wind up on clinches on the ground.

    That said, if only 20% of fights wind up there, then that's a big enough number to have at least a couple of options if it happens. One might not intend to go there, but no battle plan survives first contact with the enemy. Being able to scramble around and get back up would be at the top of my list, but if somebody is trying to stop that, I'd rather have a tool with which to discourage him.

    I expect this is like a lot of other techniques, in that you train for what seems most likely, and spend most of your time doing those things. What are the chances you are apt to run into an attacker using a katana? Or a three-section staff?

    Gun-fu would be the style of choice for that ...

    In our society in the U.S. there are all kinds of realistic possibilities, some more likely than others. Fists, feet, sticks, knives, guns, and wrestlers. Last time I looked at the stats, there were about six million people in the U.S. regularly involved in martial arts. That includes men, women, and children, and but not boxers and wrestlers. Most big high schools have a wrestling team, and so the chances of running into a wrestler is probably higher than running into a boxer, since that is, these days, actually a much less common activity.

    Every other YMCA out there has a judo class, and the ju jutsu guys are gaining numbers.

    If you are talking about training for percentages, then you probably ought to know how to deal with a wrestler/grappler's shoot. Either to stop it, slip it, or get out of it.

    (The chances of running into a silat adept are slim -- most of the real experts know each other -- and if you total up all the silat folks in the U.S., the number would be small. If I had to guess, I'd say we're talking about maybe a thousand people in the whole country, and most of those on the west coast, with maybe half that many with real skill. How I figure this is, if there was a silat school in every state in the country -- and there isn't -- and each school in each state had forty players -- and they don't -- then you'd get a whole two thousand.)

    We train with the idea that we will be facing somebody who is bigger, stronger, faster, skilled, armed, and more than one of him at a time. If you can deal with that -- and that's the trick, of course -- then you have something. Training to deal with somebody who can't fight won't serve you very well if you run into somebody who can. And thinking you can always knock out a guy who knows how to shoot as he comes in is, in my opinion, wildly optimistic. You miss, you have a problem.

    My opinion, and I could be wrong. But in this case, I don't think so ...

  6. Bambi

    Bambi Valued Member

    One of the interesting things in watching those street fight clips is how many of them include (poorly executed) MMA style movements. One guy is even hollering about the UFC during a fight. Seem's that the television exposure the UFC recieve's is settling into joe publics consciousness Perhaps soon, we can expect takedowns, chokes etc to become a part of the average idiots vocabulary of violence.
  7. Orang Jawa

    Orang Jawa The Padi Tribe-Guardian

    Salam Mas Krisno,
    LOL, Just to let you know, that's what we wore when we knows the AO is. But some times you got caught off guard :)
    In Ashau Valley you don't have to worry about the lyches, but you are worry about the fireants. they were as big as my thump and million of them. And the bamboo snakes, deadly, but delicious to eat. Taste like chicken :)
    I remember vividly about the fireants..Were under sniper fire and still can't locate the sniper, we have 1 KIAs all ready. I was lying down on top of the Kingdom of fireants and they started getting angry with me, but I did not move a flinch. I have two choices, move and get shot or stay there got bites by the angry fireants. Only two or three minutes but it felt like years. Finally we got the two little skinny warrior without shoes, half naked, but can shoot.
    Sorry for rambling,

    Last edited: Aug 24, 2006
  8. fire cobra

    fire cobra Valued Member

    respect to you tristan sir. :)
  9. silek

    silek New Member


    This was reported by Malaysian local newspaper at

    The focus of the media is police brutality. But there are some interesting observations:-

    1) The fight went to the ground. But it may be isolated case.

    2) The Imam must have a superb silat skill. He managed to kick the parang away although the robber held the parang to his wife's neck.


    Youths 'held up my family'
    29 Aug 2006

    SUBANG JAYA: The two youths who were shown being beaten by policemen in a video-clip aired over TV3 allegedly held up an imam and his family with a parang at their home in Kampung Bukit Lanchong on May 22.

    Imam Md Jauhari Abd Wahid said a member of his family recognised one of the suspects as he had built a shed for them a month earlier.

    Relating the robbery, Jauhari said he was fast asleep at about 2.30am when he was awakened by his wife's screams.

    "I ran into the kitchen and saw a man holding a parang to her neck. There were two others with him but they ran away.

    "I kicked the parang away and managed to grab it. We both wrestled, and my sons and I subdued him only after a 20-minute struggle," he said.

    The family and several neighbours then tied up the robber to a pole.

    According to the imam, the man did not seem to be injured or in any pain.

    He said the police arrived shortly later and managed to nab the two accomplices, who were hiding nearby.

    On the assault by the policemen, he said the suspects deserved it as several of his family members could have been killed.

    "They were vicious," he said.

    Jauhari said his wife suffered cuts and bruises on her face while his 23-year-old son suffered a deep bite on his back.

    He said the robbers may have targeted his house as earlier that day, he had organised a bird competition and collected RM17,000, which he had banked in.
  10. Narrue

    Narrue Valued Member

    Well I guess you were lucky that there were no Candiru fish in those waters. The candiru fish are small and are attracted to the sent of urine. If you take a **** in the river the fish will track the sent until it finds the source. It will then do one of two things, if it’s a small candiru fish it will swim up the end of your snorkel :eek: but if it’s a bigger candiru it will take the other door and eat away until it gets to your urethra. Often the only cure is amputation, that’s right……they have to chop off your snorkel :eek:
  11. apibumiayrudara

    apibumiayrudara New Member

    groundfighting comes in handy especially when you fall down on ice or mud. you must be able to defend yourself from any position. wheter upright or on the ground.
  12. Orang Jawa

    Orang Jawa The Padi Tribe-Guardian

    I'm confused here :)
    Could you elaborate more? How does the groundfighting technique help you on ice or mud?
    Have you ever practice groundfighting on ice or mud?
    Have you ever walk on ice? with shoes? without shoes?
    This beginer mind wants to know,
  13. firecoins

    firecoins Armchair General

    On such surfaces one might find it harder to remain standing up, even if you have trained on such surfaces. Groundfighting might become necessary should one or both participants fall to the ground. Hopefully there are not more participants.

    The knowledge of how to fight on the ground is helpful. It is one aspect of fighting, not the end all be all.
  14. Orang Jawa

    Orang Jawa The Padi Tribe-Guardian

    I agree the knowledge is helpfull, any knowledge is helpfull in any situation. However, when you are discusing specific situation, you need to prepare or plan for that. You can not lump everything like a snake oil can cure everything.:) You can't preach about fight on ice if you never been training on ice. :bang:
    When he said helpfull on ice or mud? my bs bell start ringin :)
    As a former Ski instructor and a mediocre hockey player, I knows all about iced. :)
    Now I can sit and listen :rolleyes:
  15. Gajah Silat

    Gajah Silat Ayo berantam!

    So lets be hypothetical & leave the 'grappled by a wrestler' aspect out of this for a moment :)

    I do accept that in the UK in winter I might slip over on a patch of ice.....might be a frozen puddle :) I have certainly ended up on my **** this way before without being in a fight.....mind you beer was almost certainly involved ;)

    So, the scenario is:-

    I am being attacked and have been knocked down, or fell down, slipped on ice, a banana skin or maybe I'm just drunk........

    I'm on the ground and someone is stood over me with the intent of doing me serious harm.

    What do I do?

    (NB. I had this happen to me many years ago & long before any Silat training)
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2006
  16. Orang Jawa

    Orang Jawa The Padi Tribe-Guardian

    GS asked:
    I'm on the ground and someone is stood over me with the intent of doing me serious harm.

    What do I do?

    (NB. I had this happen to me many years ago & long before any Silat training)

    First, let's clarify the situation. Are you hurting? Can you move?
    Secondly, is your attacker have a weapon?
    If the answer to both is Yes and you can't move. You are in the mercy of your attacker . Regardless of how many years you study martial arts you are in deep doo doo. Lets hope that your friends or a stranger suddenly making an effort to stop the fights.
    If the answer to both is NO and you can move. You may have a chance. Forget your groudfighting technique. Try as best as you can to try to stand up. Roll over if you have too. Do not wait until he made the first move.
    Remember, when you are slip and fell down, the attacker was not prepare for that, meaning he is as surprises as you. Therefore, you have time to react. Caution, the window of opportunity is closing fast. :)
    If you are knock down by the attacker, ie he tackled you. His intention is to knock you down, therefore, he will follow up with his plan. In this situation, your window opportunity is very, very small. Your groudfighting techniques may help to get away. But please don't dream of trying to lock somebody down on the ground. It a long shot. In financial world we called it: A high risks move with a miniscules return.
    IMHO, your objective is to go back up. Standing can
    be usefull to run or to fight.
    My advice is to run first. :)
    Just my worthless opinion,
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2006
  17. Orang Jawa

    Orang Jawa The Padi Tribe-Guardian

    Jerry said:
    As Tristan said, and I personally agree with him. I would rather stay on my feet, but you don't always get what you want in a real fighting situation.
    You don't always get what you want, but if you try sometime, you got what you need. Something like that :) I ain't the Rolling stone. :)
  18. Gajah Silat

    Gajah Silat Ayo berantam!

    Yeah, bad position to be in.

    Aeons ago when I was in this position, I did this....kicked the guy in the nuts as hard as I could from the ground & then got up :D

    In our Silat we do this too. Kick to the knee, ankle or nuts & then get up.

    Nothing fancy, just common sense, but a kick from a ground position is very powerful indeed.

    That guys eyes are probably still watering :p
  19. firecoins

    firecoins Armchair General

    Being proficient in said form of fighting will allow you to adapt to various situations. One does not need to specifically train the environment. A bover will still hit harder than a non boxer even on an ice rink. BJJ/grappling ground fighting does not really change much on an ice skating ring. Being proficient in the art is most important.
  20. Orang Jawa

    Orang Jawa The Padi Tribe-Guardian

    firecoins-Being proficient in said form of fighting will allow you to adapt to various situations.
    In the Army we called it: Adapt, improvise, and overcome. However, we are trained for a specific situations. You can't assume that with basic training you will accomplish the objective, whatever it is. :bang:

    One does not need to specifically train the environment. A bover will still hit harder than a non boxer even on an ice rink.

    Obviously you never walk on the ice rink, right? If you ever walk on the ice rink, you can't possibly say that. :)
    With all do respect, do you really believe a boxer can stand steadily on ice rink? Remember, if you can't balance your stand, you can't throw punch.
    You are familiar with ice hockey, it look so easy hitting the puck with a stick. but if you never skate, you will fall on your face before you touch the puck.
    The bottom lines is this, if you don't know how to stand on ice. It does not matter what kind of MA do you have, you will fall and make a fool of yourself.
    Environment will dictated how you react

    BJJ/grappling ground fighting does not really change much on an ice skating ring. Being proficient in the art is most important.

    Martial arts is a tool use it wisely. Don't assume anything unless you have been in the situation yourself.
    I can be wrong too,

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