Ground fighting techniques

Discussion in 'Silat' started by Orang Jawa, Aug 19, 2006.

  1. Connovar

    Connovar Banned Banned

    Most good practioners of bjj will tell you straight up is that going to the ground in a street fight is not a great idea. There are some standup techniques in bjj but you are better mixing in some other system to help the standup. I wouild prefer to use a standup style combining MT and some S.P.E.A.R. techniques. Your silat would certainly be helpfull here.

    The value of the training is fairly simple. First of all bjj (and other similiar systems) utilized full speed full resistance training which is invaluable experience in fighting as you learn balance speed agreessiveness yada yada yada. Secondly if you go to the ground you obviously are better prepared than most. Finally in ground fighting the maxim to remember is : position and then submission. In other words if I was fighting on the ground my aim would be to take position (and I would use eye gouges, hooks bites etc to help me here. Once I had position I would then go to strikes such as elbows, headbutts etc etc before I would go for an armbar or choke etc. If he gave a quick arm to lock (and break) fine then I would break and continue pounding him. Another good maxim is :Grappling trauma may be your thing, but blunt trauma is king! And I say this as someone who really likes bjj.
  2. Jerry Jacobs

    Jerry Jacobs New Member


    I AGREE with you that in modern times and in most situations groundfighting would be impractical, such as in a restaurant, bar, hallway, etc. In PCP we use groundfighting as a BACK UP system. We would preferably like to keep the fight on our two feet and end it with striking, but the reality is that most fights end up on the ground at some point, so it is a good idea to train your groundfighting so you can make an effortless transition from standing, to the ground, and then back standing again. Pamacan and Harimau are both very good styles for this!
    Jerry J.
  3. Steve Perry

    Steve Perry Valued Member


    I've heard this statistic in various forms for years -- most fights go to the ground, sometimes it's 90% of fights go to the ground, and I wonder from where does this assertion come?

    Does anybody have any evidence that this is so?

    As a kid, I got into a few fights, only one of which went to the ground, so my personal experience is to the contrary. I know people who have been in a lot more fights than I who have never gone to the ground.

    I'm not arguing against groundfighting -- we practice it -- but just curious. Is this true or is it one of those old cliches like driving the nose bone into the brain or spinning on your heel that people pass on without thinking about it?

    (Just as points of information, you can't drive the "nose bone" into the brain, unless you came from Krypton, and spinning on your heel is a
    good way to fall down and need those groundfighting techniques ...)
  4. firecoins

    firecoins Armchair General

    It is a cliche! all fights or 90% of fights id not an accurate account.

    When a fight goes to the ground, it doen necessarily mean the participants are wrestling around. It could mean someone got knocked out, lost their balance, thrown to the ground and is in position to be stomped. The last part is reason why not all ground fighting is grappling.
  5. Connovar

    Connovar Banned Banned

    My understanding is that this statistic came from review of police data on use of force. Since most situations in police work are involved with arresting an individual and often with multiple officers involved this statistic is not surprising. However I dont this is an accurate situation for the average civilian. Yes some fights go to the ground, but not all do. In general most street fights are over very quickly usually due to strikes.Usually one of the individuals does end up the ground but this doesnt mean grappling got him there. On the other hand it is a good idea IMO to be able to fight on the ground if it ends up there.

    The other option that ground fighting gives you is more options when dealing with situations where you may have to restain someone such as drunk relatives or dealing with the mentally ill. Then taking someone to the ground may be much safer for you and the other individual. (Obviously no body slams or suplexes etc etc :) )

    As an aside I would expect that a majority of street encounters involve the grappling range. Hence very good skills in this range would be desirable.
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2006
  6. Yama Tombo

    Yama Tombo Valued Member

    Well, I never posted any videos. :rolleyes: You got it all wrong and have taken it out of content.

    I'll repost specific videos that are groundfighting techniques. I'm not always clear about the points I make, but here they are.

    My first point, was concerning using groundfighting to get back up the feet quickly. However, I failed to mention, should your attacker be standing over you (or mounted or in guard or half-guard etc.) it will be difficult to escape safely without getting a barrage of punches to the face. Hence, the comparison of the streetfight videos, and ground and pound defence video:

    Streetfight video: compared to ground and pound defense video: [ame=""]YouTube[/ame]

    Secondly, I was not pointing to using jointlocks and submissions in a fight. I was clearly pointing out to Kembang Alas that groundfighting size didn't matter, if you know how to move on the ground. Thats why I posted the video of the brazilian jiu jitsu fighter verses an NFL player video. The brazilian jiu jitsu fighter was shorter than the NFL player, and the NFL player out weighed the fighter. Take a look for yourself:


    Third, 90% percent of fights may end up on the ground, but 90% percent of fights start standing up.
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2006
  7. Orang Jawa

    Orang Jawa The Padi Tribe-Guardian

    Sound familiar to me :)
  8. Orang Jawa

    Orang Jawa The Padi Tribe-Guardian

    Hmm sound interesting....Are sure about this?
  9. TomFurman

    TomFurman New Member

    The video vs NFL player is great. Fun grappling in a safe environment that is far more challenging than the average McDojo training. Do this enough and you will have the ability to get up off the ground when you end up there. It is practice and not theory or forum fighting. It is real, safe, effective, and ****es off those who do not practice it.

  10. Rebo Paing

    Rebo Paing Pigs and fishes ...

    Not in the least ****ed ...

    I apologise for my ignorance, but what is McDojo training?

    I'm fine with getting up off the ground. I'm not in the least ****ed ... hehe! :D

  11. Yama Tombo

    Yama Tombo Valued Member

    You know, If you want to count the videos that show fights that end up on the ground then go to the site is dedicated to nothing but fight videos.
  12. Orang Jawa

    Orang Jawa The Padi Tribe-Guardian

    That video you have shown me it does not represent the martial art fight that I know of. Are you going to tell me, after many years of practice martial arts, you are going to fight like that?
    As I have said before, I used to be the bouncer for the Bikers hangout. Remember the Pagans? Yes it was in the late 70's. So I have seen a real fights in the bar, almost every night. And one night, we have take out 35 handguns, well we retun it to them after they done inside.

    How old are you then Toma? I bet you are still swimming with millions of others. :rolleyes: So, I can tell you honestly, the fights video is for a teens who dreamed to fight to save the distress people. :)
  13. Gajah Silat

    Gajah Silat Ayo berantam!

    I simply do not believe this :confused: I think it's an modern myth put out to sell grappling videos :D

    I have done my share of bouncing in the past too and seriously, I have not seen 90% of fights end up on the ground. In fact I've only seen a handfull end up on the ground. And I repeat, I have never ever seen a 'choke out' or 'armbar'.

    From personal experience, I have only ended up on the ground once and that was due to being suckerpunched from behind!

    Don't believe the hype ;)
  14. tim_stl

    tim_stl Valued Member

    that's the maxim in brazillian jiujitsu groundfighting, but not all groundfighting.

  15. Yama Tombo

    Yama Tombo Valued Member

    Would I fight like the people in videos? No, I'm not them and they are not me.

    Do the fights in the videos show the same level of violence in a bar fight? No, but a fight is a fight; no matter what level of violence is involved. The fights in the video could or can be included in the 90% percent estimated figure.
  16. kerambit

    kerambit New Member

    It's absolutely NOT true. Most fights, by far, start standing up and result in an exchange of blows. It's just one of those statistics that have been repeated into complete meaninglessness.

    Nowadays, groundfighting is many peoples' gameplans. The guys you see on the street with barbed wire tattoos, many of them are octagon fans and may even have some MMA training. For most people, young toughs are the people they need to watch out for. Young, dumb, full of... testosterone.

    It's my opinion that there are things you can do on the ground to make the other guy not want to be within ten feet of you. Break the rules.

    In case anybody's interested, my gameplan against these guys goes something like this:

    *Lose Face
    *Make Space
    *Access Mace

    For the first one, I'm not out to look tough. I don't care if some idiot feels good because I backed away from him.

    At some point, if he wants to pursue it and I can't get away, he's the one losing face, but I really don't want to go there...
  17. Orang Jawa

    Orang Jawa The Padi Tribe-Guardian

    Salam Mas Krisno,
    Mc Dojo is a metaphore for a quick and a short training to be a master. Just like Mc Donald for quick food:)
    Many moons ago, I spend more times on the ground, smelly swamps, and sometime my body becomes the home of the hungry lyches :cry:

    Hi Tom, Bruno is with me right now for next week. We are having fun :D
  18. rubberband

    rubberband Valued Member

    I think the observed data that fights end on the ground is based on the types of people who get into most fights... untrained or intoxicated... both of which screw with balance and give gravity an advantage when weight is being thrown around...

    I also think that many fights go to the ground simply because of the fight, flight, posture, submit responses of human interaction... I have seen many instances where people who were overwhelmed simply sat down and submitted or balled up on the ground... I even once experienced this late one night while coming out of the lit bathroom into the dark bedroom... where before my eyes fully adjusted to the dark I was surprised by my wife who was on her way into the bathroom and I found myself lying on the ground on my back in a defensive position...

    take care, steve
  19. Ular Sawa

    Ular Sawa Valued Member

    I would guess it comes from the promotional literature of most BJJ schools and it's not really evidence. I do not believe it unless you count one person hitting the ground as Steve mentioned. I would venture to say that over 90% of fights go to an close infighting range from two guys squared off in a boxing range. Silat practioners clearly have an advantage in the close range situation. Still, I doubt whether anyone has delevoped a statistical analysis model for this sort of thing.
  20. Pekir

    Pekir Valued Member

    Yama Tombo,

    I can't remember mentioning you in particular. So how when you never posted any videos can you make this quote above. So where have I taken you out of context and got it all wrong.

    Don't agree with the rest of your post but that shouldn't be a big problem.


Share This Page